Welcome to High Sticking
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- November
- 27
Welcome to the new local hockey blog on LoHud.com. I’m Daniel Kiernan, the Journal News beat writer for high school hockey. This is where I’ll be sharing my thoughts as the 2006-07 season unfolds, and where you can respond with some thoughts of your own.
Even as the Journal News is wrapping up its fall sports coverage, there have already been a hand full of interesting hockey games (the new look Rams of Clarkstown North put up a convincing 10-3 win over Pelham, Fordham Prep beat Iona Prep, etc.). There were also several swaps among combined-school teams in the off-season. I’ll be posting more on these topics as the week goes on.
In the meantime, feel free to leave me some notes on what you’d most like to see this space used for.
This entry was posted
on Monday, November 27th, 2006 at 3:00 am by Daniel Kiernan. 
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HELLO THERE,
DO YOU THINK THAT HIGH SCHOOL HOCKEY IS STRONGLY INFLUENCED BY STRONG FEEDER PROGRAMS AT MITE THRU BANTAM LEVELS IN THE LOCAL COMMUNITIES ? FOR EXAMPLE SUFFERN HAS HAD A STRONG PROGRAM FOR YEARS AT RAMAPO AND DERIVED SUBSTANTIAL BENEFITS FOR ITS HIGH SCHOOL HOCKEY TEAM.I WOULD ARGUE THAT CLARKSTOWN NORTH HAS ALSO BEEN A SUBSTANTIAL BENEFICIARY OF THIS. GIVEN THIS, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU COVER SOME OF THE PLACES THAT SEEM TO DO THIS WELL AND SUGGEST WHAT SOME OF THE LAGGARDS COULD DO TO IMPROVE MATTERS
Yes, strong feeder programs do results in better programs. However, all do not help the high schools themselves. A perfect example is the Brewster Bulldog Program. A good program that draws from all around, much like the former Ramapo Ranger hockey program. You take top kids from all over. Much better are programs that focus on the local kids. To your point, Suffern and spor-0-rama. It is also a question of ice time and availability
What a great first topic for discussion on the hockey blog. Youth programs: where it all begins. So far Suffern, Clarkstown North, and Brewster have been mentioned, and I’ll follow up with some research into how their youth systems work. In the meantime, anyone know of any other good systems revolving around a local rink (whether they benefit a single high school team or not)? Ice Hutch? Playland? New Roc? Ebersole?
Thanks.
Mamaroneck is the lower Westchester equivalent of Suffern. The Tigers start young (they have programs from mite clinic to high school). They have community support thru a muncipal rink (Hommocks)and have some excellent coaches who have dedicated themselves to the program. The Mamaroneck high school coach must take the trophy for longetivity and continuity. They only accept players from the community unlike Brewster and hark back to the days when local communities took pride in how well they did.
[...] We have an interesting conversation about hockey youth programs and feeder systems in the comments below my previous post, and Josh Thomson’s blog on girls basketball, The Sixth Man, has also launched today. [...]
dan, when will full rosters & section scoring leaders, stats, etc. be available to view on the 2006-2007 journal news hockey site?
The biggest problem I see, is in coaching. You very rarely see the same coach at the youth level in back to back seasons.The other problem is most coaches, want to put the blame on the refs rather than coaching their players.The future of Hockey is speed, and just like the NHL youth programs will have to follow.The other problem I see is some referees at the youth level are not calling the games as mandated. This will create problems for the teams in Elmsford and Brewster
In response to your question, hockey fan, we’re still getting rosters sent in from coaches and inputting them to the website. Stats went up on the site last night for the games that we’ve received so far.
There are links waaaaay down at the bottom of my blog’s main page for the hockey page on MaxPreps.com, where you can find this year’s results and stats. There’s also a link to Sports Huddle, where you can see last year.
If I may address two of the issues brought up… Coaching and Refs.
Yes, youth coaching is a major issue. Very often you get coaches at the younger levels that are parents trying to do their best. And they are doing their best. Let’s not fault them for this. They give their time, effort and dedication. Without them the programs would come to a halt. However, they are parents learning the game or that had once played the game. As it is not enough skill and skill work is being taught. The better organizations have seen this and are going out and getting real coaching staffs. The youth schedule is also a bit skewed with the focus on games rather than on practice ice. The result and it is obvious this season…the high school programs end up having to really teach basic skills and positioning. The good youth programs teach these elements.
Refs:
Its not that coaches often blame the refs. That happens in every sport and at every level. The problem in our area sometimes is that the refs are in fact a problem. There is a clear lack of consistency from game to game and from shift to shift. Players, fans and coaches alike roll ther eyes when they see certain high school refs assigned to games becuase they know the problems. The officials seem to be inconsistent and more concerned with the perception of control than the rules. The joke is often…if the hit “sounded” too hard, it will be a penalty..even if the ref does not see it. They will let a penalty go one shift and then call it the next despite seeing both. They are also not proactive in stopping the problems before they get out of hand. The one exception being Ricky Yarmy. As a ref who has done higher leagues, he is consistent, lets the kids play hockey, knows how to settle them down and rarely ever has a problem with players or coaches.
In regard to the areas youth programs, you would have to look to communities like Suffern, Clarkstown, Pelham, Rye, White Plains and Mamaroneck that have tradionally had strong youth programs and hence better school programs. This is a direct correlation to each of these communities having a rink in their backyards (Sport-O-rama, Playland, Ebersol, Ice Hutch and the Hommocks). With the additions of Westchester Skating Academy and Brewster Ice Arena, more and more schools are benefiting from the increase in travel hockey and more ice time in general. Kids particulary from Northern Westchester and Putnam have had the opportunity to now play for travel programs such as the Westchester Vipers, Brewster Bulldogs, Westchester Express (prev Sanpple Express) and Brewster Blackhawks at Tier I, II and III levels. In addition, many other kids participate in ‘In-House” programs, which also feed the schools, along with some communities that have large roller hockey programs. All of these factors have resulted in the explosion of Ice Hockey in Section 1.
Another great example here you guys are forgetting – Don’t forget that the Palisades Ice Center in the mall has another travel organization – Clarkstown Capitals. It’s not just Sport-O-Rama with the Ramapo Saints in Rockland anymore. Think about it – Once the Palisades mall opened with their ice center, it has lead to the rise in more Clarkstown talent. North was never a good hockey team in the 90s, but ever since the development of the Clarkstown Capitals organization, it has helped Clarkstown North has close the gap on Suffern in recent years as the Section 1 powerhouse. Kids from Clarkstown don’t have to travel up to Suffern to play for their travel organization anymore, they truly have one right in their backyard now. Now, this is not to say that ALL North players play for the Clarkstown Capitals, but some do. And because that opportunity is literally right there, this just affirms your point that good local travel organizational opportunities produce good local high school hockey teams.
Dan ,I would like to give praise to you and your past associates for their unbiased coverage of high school hockey.
I believe that the writers of TJN know and recognize which players are deserving of praise and coverage despite what their coaches say.
[...] To draw this back to the discussion on feeder programs, I’m sure the Clarkstown Capitals have something to do with the constant source of talent on Clarkstown North, but the Rams’ new starting goalie is reportedly a Saints product. [...]
OK, I just got off the phone with Suffern coach Rob Schelling, who confirmed that pretty much every one of his players is a product of the Ramapo Saints.
Here’s the system: The kids start out at free clinics at Sport-O-Rama when they’re 5 or 6 years old, they move up to the Suffern youth hockey team, then to the Saints, then to the Suffern varsity. The varsity players then help out at the free clinics, and the circle of hockey life continues.
According to Schelling, the Pearl River and North Rockland youth programs, also skating out of Sport-O-Rama, are surging in much the same way that Clarkstown’s youth hockey did several years ago. Suffern’s history and tradition, and the location of Sport-O, still give them the advantage on youth involvement in Rockland, but the gap is shrinking.
Pelham has a really strong youth hockey program and almost every player on the Varsity team played for Pelham as little kids.
I would agree. For a while when the Rye Ranger program was stronger it had the same effect on the Rye High program as well with New Rochelle Youth Hockey and the High School program. I think simply makes sense that areas with strong youth programs have better chances of strong HS programs. To Rob Shellings point of tradition, these kids grow up watching the HS team andwanting to play for it.
Hockey scout mentions the Rye Ranger program. A while ago i did some research. Did you know that when it was strong, Rye High School hockey team made the state playoffs again and again ? The decline in the high school’s play started a couple of years after the Ranger program was weakened. The same thing happened to the Rye Country Day School varsity team. This school which used to have the best team in the Hudson valley could not even get enough upperclassmen to the tryouts this year.
Parents will not travel too far if alocal program is available whatever its quality. That is why USA Youth hockey should work on towns with rinks so that programs at the child level get better coaching. USA Hockey has done some great things at the U16 abd U18 levels but it is at the local municipal rink that the next Drury or Shanahan is going to get into hockey.
Wow this is great, a blog devoted to section 1 hockey, I can’t get enough of this. I’d like to see something written on the small school hockey programs or the combined teams.
Schools without a large base of travel players often have trouble fielding competitive teams. Some programs have folded over the years. Do you forsee more combined teams in the future allowing those players without High School teams to play? Private school is not always an option.
Actually most Clarkstown North players stem from the Ramapo Saints organization as well, but some come from Clarkstown Capitals too. Lots of North and Suffern players play together on these travel teams.
That has always been the case as mentioned I played for St. Joes in Montvale way back when.. All my Ramapo Saints teamamtes were spread between Suffern, North, South, Bergen Catholic, Bosco and Saint Joes..
well scout Rick is a good ref but he is not the only ref working at higher levels. He is a member of a good officiating association and they have some great refs who have worked high level games and leagues. They are working hard every night to provide good hockey, why dont the coaches learn the rules? I love sitting in the stands hearing fans yell let them play, so an elbow should be let go cause he was finishing his check?
As for youth coaches they should be applauded for the efforts they put in. it is very hard to coach with such little practice
Sky, I was not implying that the refs were not good or not working hard. I was following up on a comment that was made. Hockey in the area is very much a group effort and the players, parents, refs, coaches, fans and ADs all are working hard to help hockey stay alive and thrive in this area. I was simply highlighting Rick’s ability to head off problems..it was not a condemnation of other officials. Like the athelets and coaching, all are developing and growing.
For ADs its a very expensive sport to maintain, insure and fund and and it is our “job” to make sure that the game grows and flourishes as do the skills and minds of the student/athletes.
I also agree that every chance we have we should applaud the efforts of the parents and volunteers.
I wrote on this the other day but I guess since I dont see my comment maybe I did it wrong. I am not a Pelham fan, as they broke our hearts last year in triple overtime. They like us at Rye have a B minus rec level youth travel program at best. Its not nearly as strong in numbers or talent like say Mamaroneck. Its better than nothing but look at roster sizes. Pelham and Rye just have enough to play high school every year, maybe 18 to 22 players. Mamaroneck has full compliment of Varsity, full JV and two modifed teams. No comparison, except on the Varsity level where Rye and Pelham hold their own against Mamaroneck. I think Rye will win the Section, and Pelham won`t.
This is a great column but as a former player, coach and fan high school hockey around here can’t compete with legit teams upstate. If you want to take a look at great local hockey go to a Manhattenville College game. They are the best kept secret in Westchester. They are currently the #1 D III team in the nation. They play out of Rye Playland which is a mickey mouse rink for a legit team. Big reason the NY Rangers left years ago. Why am I writing about a college team on a HS blog? Cause 99% of the kids around here can’t make a college team like Manhattenville. It is full of players who at 16 played Junior A in Canada for two years and then went to college. This isn’t done in the states by most.
This year it seems that there are more and more Freshman on the varsity teams who years ago wouldn’t of made it. There are less legit players around deluting local hockey even more. Keep the column going but also keep it in perspective and watch a St Marys from Long Island if you want to see a real HS hockey club.
what is so good about Manhattenville? they never win the big game and the coach worries more about complaining to the refs then coaching. Maybe some of the local high school teams should get players from canada…(like rye in the 80’s) I would like to see the local colleges get american players then we would really see some talent
Just to go back on the topic of refereeing….How can you complain about inconsistency? Does anyone watch NHL games? Are they consistent game to game? NO. You know why? Because they are not robots. These a human beings who make mistakes, just like the kids make mistakes on the ice. Nobody is a NHL Player, and these are not NHL referees.
[Scout says] – “They will let a penalty go one shift and then call it the next despite seeing both”. How do you know what the referee saw? There are different angles that the ref (and yes, even us in the stands) see. They do not have video replay where they can watch something from a few angels then decide if its a penalty.
This is my biggest pet peeve watching my 3 sons grow up playing hockey (youngest one is now a senior). I can’t stand parents and fans who most of the time have no idea of the rules (I’m not saying I do either) yell and scream at referees like their because the ref made a mistake it will cost there son a chance at getting drafted. Some coaches are the worst, coach the kids and forget about the referees, a few of the worst coaches that come right to mind is the Pelham coach and the Mamaroneck Coach.
Hockey is a game, its meant to be played for fun. Once you cross that line where you start yelling at refs, blaming refs, that’s when you need to step back, and maybe either get into something else, or stay home for the games.