League alignments
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- March
- 31
I’ve heard the rule is to drop the bottom team and bump up last year’s champion. That would leave us with this:
League 1: Suffern, Mamaroneck, Pelham, Rye, Rye Town/Harrison, John Jay, Mahopac, White Plains
League 2: Clarkstown North, Yorktown, Scarsdale, Brewster, Mount Pleasant, North Rockland
League 3: Fox Lane, E/T/B, Ossining, Pawling, Clarkstown South, Lakeland/Panas, New Rochelle
League 4: Byram Hills, Kennedy/PV, Somers/NS, Pearl River, SH/Irvington, Greeley, Tappan Zee, Carmel, Nyack
However, this was a really interesting year. The worst teams in League 1 were either very young (Mahopac) or missing key players (North), and I don’t think putting them in League 2 is the solution. Meanwhile, Rye Town/Harrison graduates four huge starters and White Plains graduates the top two scorers in the section and the goalie. Meanwhile, John Orlando told me that no League 1 team wants to move down. So I’m not sure where that leaves us at this point.
One radical solution, which I mentioned earlier this season, is to split the teams up by division, like they do at sectionals. So you have:
League I-A: Suffern, Mamaroneck, Rye Town/Harrison, Mahopac, White Plains, Clarkstown North, Scarsdale
League II-A: Pelham, Rye, John Jay, Yorktown, Brewster, Pawling, Fox Lane
League I-B: Mount Pleasant, North Rockland, E/T/B, Lakeland/Panas, New Rochelle, SH/Irvington, Clarkstown South, Carmel
League II-B: Ossining, Byram Hills, Kennedy/PV, Somers/NS, Pearl River, Greeley, Tappan Zee, Nyack
The final determinations won’t be made until the ADs meet on April 30. What are your picks for the new leagues?
Finally, here’s something that will complicate things further. I heard two smaller teams (update: Tappan Zee and Nyack) are thinking of merging. This shouldn’t affect the league alignments (this is a move to stay afloat, not to create a powerhouse. I expect the merged team will still be placed in League 4). What it could affect is the playoff picture. When two small schools combine, it could push a larger school into Division II. Right now the smallest school in Division I is Clarkstown South (you can find the exact numbers on a previous post). I haven’t seen the school sizes for next year, but look at how close Mamaroneck was to the Vikings this year. A merger has never been denied by Section 1, but that might change if schools like Pelham, Rye and John Jay all of a sudden see Mamaroneck as a sectional opponent.
Again, this is all hypothetical at this point. I’ll let you know if/when the merger becomes official. This brings up one other issue — how is every section allowed to determine their own rules for a state playoff? Section 1 puts teams in Divisions I and II based on school size, but Section 9 does it based on program strength. I know this was a bigger issue last year when Monroe-Woodbury beat much smaller schools (like Rye) on its way to a DII state title, but I still can’t believe sections are allowed to choose their own criteria, and everyone else in the state has to live with that decision.
This entry was posted
on Monday, March 31st, 2008 at 10:00 pm by Harold Gutmann.
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I am still in favor of the current power league structure. Hockey does not have the population of skilled athletes that well organized programs like little league and CYO produce for baseball and basketball, respectively.
Success at hockey is not school size based. A small school like Pelham or Rye can typically have a stronger program than North Rockland or Carmel. A power league structure, as is also done in lacrosse, allows schools who do not have hockey playing populations to at least have somewhat competitive seasons.
As far as Division 1 or Division 2 grouping. This should be realistically approached. Remember that Monroe-Woodbury, one of the largest schools in the state was the D2 champion two years ago. To defend this, MW had never been a traditional hockey power and they did correct that this year by moving to D1.
My approach would be to again divide the section in half. If a team like Clarkstown North falls from D1 to D2, well they should probably remain in D2. This is rationale, CS has been average in recent years. If they improve enough to advance in the D2 playoffs, their should be no problem there.
If a team like Mamaroneck falls to D2, well I'd think that next year at least they should decline and opt for D1. They are a legitimate D1 state contender. This type of flexibility should be allowed and is available if you see the Monroe Woodbury example. If the Mamaroneck programs was to fall off some than D2 to could be used. I guess I am advocating some flexability when it comes to placement in D1 or D2.
As far as merging teams…if it preserves programs yes, if it creates superteams no. The merging of programs should not be a consideration in D1 or D2 alignments. These alignments will be affected if the teams merge, but they will also be affected if the programs fold. I'd rather see 2 teams merge than 2 teams fold.
For my above post, I meant if Clarkstown South were to to fall from D1 to D2, not Clarkstown North.
I bet I know one team (whose fan base dominates this blog)that would love to see Mamo in next season's D II playoffs. With a loaded mamo team, Pelham bringing almost everyone back next season and Rye stepping up its game the last few seasons, the DII playoffs could boast the top teams in the section. DI would be an afterthought in Section 1 next season.
"I bet I know one team (whose fan base dominates this blog)that would love to see Mamo in next season’s D II playoffs." Pressure is always on the top dog. I'm sure Mamo would rather be DII, and not have Suffern breathing down their necks.
"a loaded mamo team?" HAHAH how can you claim the mamo team is loaded? IT LOST ITS TOP OFFENSE GENERATOR, no one else on that team was even close.
why would Suffern be afraid of a weakened Mamaroneck team, when the CN teams of past (D'Addio, Gellis, Froatz,) / (Willows, Willows, Shuman) would have mercy ruled this or last years Mamaroneck team?
Suffern has won all but 4 D1 Sectional titles in the last 30+ years, next years mamaroneck team, who loses its greatest offensive threat, probably wont even be one of the top 4 teams suffern will face next season.
Logically speaking…if the CN teams of yore would have "mercied" this or last years Mamaroneck teams, which competed and beat this years Suffern team, you are also saying that these CN teams would have handily beaten Suffern. Which obviously they did not.
I am not saying Suffern is afraid of anyone. My point is that if Mamo, Pelham and Rye are not playoff opponents, who does Suffern worry about blocking their route to the Sectional title? A CN team that won 1 game last year? Yes they have a super goalie and, supposedly, a super forward coming back. But, is that really something to get worried about? Is it WP, who has some solid returning skaters, but graduated the top 2 scorers in the Section and their goalie. Or is it New Ro, fresh up from league 4 (remember how some of the Suffern bloggers disparage the achievments of lower league teams). Or is it a maturing Pac team? Not bad, but a threat to win the section? ETB? Only if everyone shows up and they find a goalie. If Mamo gets slotted down, the D II playoffs become the show, while in DI, Suffern should have a cakewalk.
It's tough to put a firm line across the entire state on enrollment numbers for hockey. It is not a sport like basketball or football that most schools in the state field teams. In hockey, I would venture a guess that there are more schools without it than schools with it in the state. That would bring up the issue of where you put the line? Do you base it on ALL schools in the state or just those with hockey? If you go by just those who have hockey, does the number change every year as schools add or drop programs?
Plus, if they were to put this hard line across the state and keep it as only D1 & D2, Section 1 would probably have only a handful of D2 teams and about 25 D1 teams, because that line would be WAY lower than it falls when we divide the section in half. To a lot of schools upstate where it is not as congested as down here, Rye & Pelham are average-sized schools, not tiny like we all think they are. You would also have the problem where if there are sections like ours with many teams, the majority of which would fall into say D1, then that section's representation in the state tourney in D2 would be lacking and would lessen the tournament. Luckily for us that wouldn't happen since two of the strongest teams in the section are also the smallest, but it could very easily not turn out that way. Lets say the state puts the line at 800 students, D2 in this section would be TZ, Nyack, Byram Hills, PR, Rye & Pelham. If Rye & Pelham have an off year (which could very well happen), we are giving the D2 opponent in the state quarterfinals a layup into Utica.
Also, Section 9 didn't keep MW in D2 for all those years because they weren't a traditional powerhouse, they did it because with only 4 teams, it just made more sense to keep them together. They felt a ton of pressure for their state title in D2, so they moved to D1. Don't think they righted the ship, though. Newburgh has more kids than MW, but they are still playing D2 and probably will until they are good enough to unseat Burke Catholic and head to the state tourney. Once that happens, they will get chastised until they move up as well.
Lohud…good information as usual.
It seems that D1 or D2 placement will never be an exact science. It's probably best left up to the sections to decide. In the case of Newburgh, you are right, if they got real good they would probably feel the pressure to be in D1. Thats a good thing. At least (hopefully) they'd only be misplaced for that one year.
New Jersy publics for the first time this year went to a large school-small school public championship format. I think they use a school population criteria. Perhaps it works well in New Jersey, a more densely populated state than the say the entirety of New York State, which has many rural and low population regions.
I don't have a problem with Mamo in D II, especially when you look at what the rest of the state does. I think Rye was eliminated in the state playoffs the last 2 seasons by teams whose enrollment was larger than Mamo's. If Mamo has the choice, they might want to stay in D I this year, since they would be one of the top D I teams in the state with almost all their roster returning. And, lets face it, a DI title is more prestious. Tough call for Chaps. Does he go for a fairly safe (remmeber strange things can happen in hockey games) bet on a deep state playoff run in DII, or take his chances with the big boys?
fanotgame-your constant snide Suffern comments don't give you much credibility. Jealousy is a green eyed monster ain't it.
I was actually focusing on Mamaroneck's issue. They are the team to be jealous about.
To No credibility- Suffern was the gold standard by which everyone else was measured this past (and many a previous) season. No question the most prestigious and successful hockey program in the Section. With knowlegeable, blog prolific fans. And there is no reason to believe the Mounties won't continue that success and their bloggers their entertaining input thru this forum. This coming season though, there are a group of teams that could easily finish ahead of Suffern. Several of those are smaller schools, including Mamo if they get slotted down. And the larger schools with the best chance to finish ahead of Suffern next year didn't play in league 1 last season. Just pointing out that some of the schools many Mountie bloggers have dismissed recently on this blog will likely be your toughest competition come playoff time. And you want to earn your Section 1 title. It is much sweeter that way. Just ask Mamo. If Mamo moves down, I hope Willows/McIndoe can put North on their shoulders, New Ro finds a little depth to support their strong front line players, WP finds depth and gets good goalie play, Pac matures into a strong D I team and ETB's hotshots commit to the team and the goalie matures, so that the DI playoffs are competitive.
I think that the state needs a definitive state cut-off number. Lets say around 700 Kids. Each section are cheating with numbers and larger enrollment schools are taking over D-2. I know Albany has schools with large enrollments in D-2 and we also have large enrollments in d-2. I think with a definitive # or even third school size option, Up to 600, 650-1150, and 1150 and up. That enables the small schools in the state, Pelham, Rye, Clinton and Salmon River can all play eachother, which is good, while the super large schools can battle for the large school. Also, we play in a league system that doesnt vary on school size so this would change nothing for section 1.
I really dont think schools with 1100-Mamo, should play in state playoffs against Clinton-450 kids….
From what I see here, there are two main things to take away.
1) The fact that Orlando has been told that no League 1 team wants to move down, tells us a couple things. It tells us that Mahopac believes in its younger team to rebuild, AND it also tells us the CN coach knows something – perhaps he knows for a fact that Willows and/or Shuman are coming back, and that will certainly keep them in League 1. If they dont come back to CN, i cannot see a sane reason for the CN coach to keep his team in League 1.
2) It's time for WP to go to League 1. And no excuses that "this isnt the year" because Rui and Sigona are gone. Their modified team beat Suffern's last year, correct? It's time.
3) After the loss of those great Seniors that helped start this program, Rye Town seems to want to test their younger players who will replace Novick, McKinneys, etc. and see if they can play in League 1.
4) Just taking a guess here, but I'm assuming the two League 4 teams that want to merge are Nyack and TZ. TZ had only 12 players last year, and they are losing a few of those players this year, including their only goalie.
Nice article about the exceptional seniors game the other day. This truly was a great Senior class across the Section. Leaves things wide open for next year!
Matt Willows and Chris McIndoe can carry a team farther than Brian Conner/Sean Hagan/ Luke Glasser
Willows is the best player in the section if he played this season, by far.
So even if CN just has Willows, Mamo just had Conner…therefore CN>Mamo
If they were to put in a hard line at 700 students, we would have had 26 D1 schools in Section 1 this year with Rye, Pelham, Pearl River, & Byram Hills being the only ones in D2. This was my point earlier. We are lucky that Rye & Pelham are 2 of the best, but in other sections where this occurs, a team the caliber of Pearl River could be declared section champs. That is not a knock on Pearl River, but honestly if they played anyone of the teams in the state tourney this year, they would have been down at least 7 goals by the first intermission.
I think a 3rd tier would be a better idea, but if they were to make either of those changes, they would also have to alter the format of the state tourney. No longer would they be able to limit it to the 8 section champs in each division, because some sections wouldn't have a representative in some of the divisions, and some of them would send a real weak team watering down the tourney. Right now, with the decisions being up to the sections, they all do what they can to make sure they are represented well in both divisions at the end of the year.
If they changed the tournament structure, I would say they would have to expand each tourney to a 16-team tournament with seedings like NJ does (actually, they are 24 team tourneys). The only drawback, and probably the thing that has been keeping NY from doing this all these years is that NY is too damn big. If they were to do this, there would be too many schools doing what CN had to do two years ago and that would be bad. The beauty of it in NJ is that pretty much all the hockey is in northern NJ, so your opponent is never more than an hour & a half away.
The combination of Willows and little Shu are enough to keep CN very competitive in L1, possibly at the top! The CN coach knows this. With the AAA talent of those two players, both top AAA players in the Atlantic League, CN could experience a real turn around. Willows alone could not shoulder the burdon, he needs little Shu with his speed and skill to set him up. I hear that little Shu is even bigger and stronger now.
To AnotherFan…what happens when they come off the ice? Is the freshman line going to fold? Prediction…CN will finish at the bottom of L1 again, but ahead of Mahopac next year. But at the bottom none the less.
Next year will certainly be fun. and if the star forwards return to CN, it will make things even more interesting…
tigervet – you don't know the endurance Willows has. This kid is unreal. He won't come off the ice. You may have a sub for Shuman and the other forward here and there, but Willows will stay on the ice for probably 44 minutes. He never wants to come off anyway. If they return to CN next year, CN will definetely be in the top half of League 1.
Don't you think that other teams will be able to keep him under wraps? He is not playing with AAA talent. They will keep two forwards on him and he will be kept to a goal or two game, which he will have to work really hard for! It is insulting to the rest of the teams in L1 to think otherwise.
Not true Tigervet. If little Shu plays and doesn't go to prep, Willows will have all the talent on the ice he needs. Little Shu has speed and hands. He can really make things happen. Let the other players hang all over Willows. Little Shu will score the other two goals!
CN has some very serviceable returning sophmore, will be junior, forwards. These kids have played most of their youth hockey years with and against the Suffern junior and seniors. They'll provide some depth to the team. On defense CN will be inexperienced. Their best returning d-man will be a sophomore, who will be one of the better ones in the section by time he's a senior. After that they will definitely have to experiment to find some defensive compliments. A top-notch goalie like McIndoe and a Willows and Shuman will definitively provide some defensive releif though. They should be a competitive league 1 team. I like getting the chance to watch Willows again. If he played for a mamo or a suff, those teams would be hands down state schampion favorites.
There is no way he would be able to play anywhere near 44 minutes a game. He was able to stay out there for long periods of time two seasons ago because they had 4 outstanding players out there. If it is just one Willows & one Shuman instead of two apiece, they are going to have to work much harder to get anything done and therefore will be much more tired. You have to remember, with that team 2 years ago, opponents couldn't double-team anyone because there were three other guys on the ice who would make them pay if they did.
They will be much more reliant on a second line this time around, and assuming Coach Lynch learns from his mistakes of two years ago, they should be. He figured out the hard way this year that not playing anyone other than the big four and not devloping any younger kids left him with a 1-win season after the first round of Willows/Shuman graduated. Hopefully he won't fall into that trap again and leave himself up the creek without a paddle after Willows/Shuman part deux graduate.
I like CN next year. Don't underestimate last years sophmore class of forwards. As juniors they will provide needed forward depth for Willows and Shuman. This group has played most of their youth hockey careers with and against the same group from Suffern. Their won't be any built in intimidation.
McIndoe should be stalwart in goal obviously. On defense, they'll be young and have to experiment for the right combinations. The best returner will be a sophmore who will be one of the sections best d-men by time he is a senior. But there is no better one-two combination than McIndoe and Willows to help relieve some pressure in your defensive zone.
They'll be more than competitive, but like 2 and 3 years ago are susceptible to being worn down by teams with superior depth.
Yes, assuming they come back, Willows and Shu, along with the Junior class of forwards, they should be set on Offense with a tremendous first line (again, if they come back) and a somewhat solid 2nd line.
Their D is young but very talented. Plus they have an Outstanding defenseman coming up that should start right away along with the top returner.
Goal is set with Mac!
So assuming all the above, they should be a solid team.
To Another Fan- I am not so sure that scoring stats in the Atlantic U16 AAA league is a perfect barometer for Section 1 success. OK we all know Willows is a super player (wherever he plays) who scored 56 points in the Atlantic league this year. Shuman tallied 21 points in the Atlantic league. Here are some other Atlantic League U16 AAA forwards who played locally this past season: Miano also had 56 points in the Atlantic League and was solid for a good Stepinac team in scoring 12 goals for the CHSHL A division season. The much heralded Hagan from ETB had 33 points in the Atlantic league. He had lots of points (55) and goals (33) in Section 1 play, but a lot of those points were scored against lower league teams and he did not do much againt top Section 1 competition in the playoffs. Rye's Katsuta had 12 points in Atlantic league play and 14 in section 1's league 1 this past season. So, while Shuman must be pretty good to play AAA travel, his AAA point total will not necessarily translate into some monster point season in Section 1, especially if other teams can key on him and Willows. Those strong returning CN forwards are going to have to lug the puck out of the zone all the time, something they didn't really need to do when their older brothers were skating with them a few seasons ago. Tiring to have to give it your all on both ends of the ice every other shift. It would be a heroic feat for 2 forwards and a goalie to lead CN to the top of the section.
Good reasoning fanotgame. CN is to young on defense and still probably to thin at forward to be considered section favorites. But with how the team could be constructed they should remain in league 1. With 2 starters that have been named to the all-state team (McIndoe and Willows) it's where they should stay.
fanotgame…the U-16 AYHL players you referenced were sophmores last year. They probably played behind seniors on their very good teams (Rye and Step) accounting for their reduced section 1 league scoring. I'd guess that as juniors and seniors they'll be among the section better players and scoring leaders.
To CN also- I agree they should stay. They could finish in the middle of league 1. Just not section favorites.
And whoever lauded this past year's senior class, I agree with you. It was a large and skilled group that lead their respective teams to strong play within and outside the Section. They are the reason why the state rankings picked up so many of our teams the last 2 years, and why so many Section 1 players were awarded All State honors the past 2 seasons. Now, lets see if the young guns can keep the downstate momentum going.
There must be something in the water over on your side of Rockland CN. CN does not belong in the power league next year, regardless of who returns or chooses to play. If If If…You have a fantastic goalie, no question.
To Yeh…your outstanding D coming amassed a total of 3 assists (no goals) this past season against kids a year older. How will he do as the starting Freshman D playing against 16 and 17 year olds in L1? CN finished in last place in L1 and should move down to L2 next year. Cut and dry. I like your optimism, but come on. They will belong in L1 as much as WP belongs in L2.
I hate to admit it, but I agree with you Old School. This time…
Just my instinct that CN could compete with Rye, RTH, John Jay, White Plains and Mahopac next year in league 1, and I'll say it, "if" Willows and Shuman return.
To CN also, By compete with you mean be outshot 4-1? McIndoe will make 40+ saves, but CN will still lose most of their games. Then what happens the following year? Sid Finch moves to New City and you stay in L1 again?
If Mamaroneck could drop to D2 they would, they did it before, so if the numbers indicated such, they would drop… even though they should not. I want to see another suffern Mamaroneck game.
As for the best programs for kids. I would rather have my kid play for Mamaroneck for the following reasons.
1- They have Modified, JV and Varsity (the only school in the state that has this) this way my kid wont rot on the bench like most varsity suffern kids did except for 9 skaters all season. Also, if my kid is excellent, he won't be playing modified as a 8th and 9th grader like suffern kids do. Which does nothing for them by beating most teams to death. None of Mamks 9th graders or talented 8th graders play modified, they play JV.
2- The coaches – Schelling runs 3 D, and 6 forwards, if your kid is not one of them…. they rot on the bench and are just demo players for practice. Chap seems to run all his forwards and more than 4 D. Schelling is an excellent coach no doubt and probably knows his X's and O's better than Chap, but he is inflexible, and does not seem to reward kids with playing time for their hard work and loyalty. Mamk does.
3- Winning – Mamaroneck has won 2 of the last 5 Championships, while Suffern has won 3 of the last 5. Not much of a difference here. Suffern wins a bit more, but at the cost of kids who bust their butts and never see the ice.
Depending on what you want your kid to get out of it, I would say Mamaronecks program is better… unless your kid is a major star… then perhaps it is even.
Just wanted to clarify two things:
The sections will be allowed to classify their own teams into Division I and Division II next season. This has already been decided and won't be changed until the 09-10 season at the earliest.
Also, there is no possibility of creating three divisions. It's a state rule that it can't happen unless there are over 200 teams in the state, and hockey has about 125.
The divisions are good the way they are.
However, I do think the playoffs should go back to an open tournament. I think some teams reason to stay in league 1 is because they don't have to worry about NOT making the playoffs. I mean C. North did not win 5% of their games and still made the playoffs.
Clarkstown North shoudl be forced to go to league 2, they could not even beat Sleepy Hollow. I don't care if Sidney Crosby plays for them next year, they can still schedule a tough non league schedule. But when you win 1 game all year and could not beat even the worst of teams… it is a joke that they are in league 1. It makes a mockery of the whole thing.
how bout 27or28 of 31 lol
OldSchool, we will just disagree for now on how competitive CN can be in league 1 next year. As for the year after that, lets just get through next year, its still 8 months away.
i would say CN would end up middle of the road in league 1 if the 2 return next year..BUT!!! this would not be a team you would want to play in the playoffs.. Mcindoe makes a couple of big saves, willows goes right past pretty much any defensemen in the section and the next thing you know you just lost… 2-1
WP wins league 1
I admit to being new to the drama – but with rules established that say winner moves up and loser moves down – how is it that any teams can say "i don't want to move down" and have it stick? It's the seedings and 'free pass'into the sections which would lose credibility.
CN also… I bet CN will stay in L1 the following year as well. We may get as tired of them at the bottom of L1 as we did WP being at the top of L2 year in and year out. LOL.
CN has a young coach. But I do not understand the logic. No matter… the games against them will still be fun. We can get some of the underclassman out on the ice. Every League has to have bottom dwellers.
LOL Oldschool,
Then CN should change their name from the Rams to the Catfish.
TigerVet2 you are killing me! I forgot for a minute that I don't like you. LOL
I know, it is nothing personal. It's that whole East West thing!
All that, and they didn't win all of the last 5 section championships.-lol Yeah 3-2 and they are just about even? I guess you selectively forgot the 2 regional championships and 2 trips to the final 4. Not to mention only 7 losses in the past 3 years, and 11 total losses in the last 4 years. I don't know-I'll take proven results over whats on paper anytime.
Why wouldnt RTH want to stay in league 1. From what I have read, they were voted to be dead last this year when they moved up and the blog gave them a lot of flack for moving up. As a team, each and every year they somehow figure out ways to win and improve. The loss of the seniors is a HUGE loss. Could you imagine if Urban hadnt gone down what "may have been". He comes back next year and will be expected to lead. Yes, they gave up a lot of points and leadership.
D1 and D2 classification solution…
Rather than just splitting the section evenly based on school size, the section should just decide on an enrollment number for D1 or D2 classification.
I'd say that schools with at least 1,000 students should play D1 hockey for state playoffs. This ensures that (smaller) large schools like Suffern, Mamaroneck or even Clarkstown South are D1 classified. Please remember that these schools are considered big enough to be classified as AA by the state for football.
Its not perfect, but for most sports these are considered large schools and probably should be for playoff hockey purposes.
Heard that Willows is leaving NJ Prep School and going back to CN because there's a rule in New Jersey that you can only play Varsity for 4 years. Therefore, he could not play another year in his Prep School?
Does anyone know if Willows played varsity for CN in 8th grade?
TigerVet2…always with the wise cracks about WP. "WP at the top of League 2 year in and year out." When was that because I sure missed it. Didn't they came in THIRD just last year?
I don't know for sure, but I highly doubt that he did. I believe the Clarkstown schools are pretty strict against having a kid in 8th grade on the Varsity team. I believe CN had a problem with that this year where they had a real talented 8th grader and no depth on the varsity team, but the AD wouldn't let them bring the kid up to the varistiy squad. I am not 100% sure if that was because the modified team barely had enough kids to field a team and had to cancel games any time one or two kids couldn't make it or if it was because they won't let middle school kids on the varsity team, but my educated guess is that it was the latter.
Little Willows did not play varsity hockey in 8th grade. The Clarkstown policy is that 7th and 8th graders can only compete on teams declared to be "no cut" by the district athletic director except for football (no 7th or 8th grader can play) and then they must pass strict testing procedures before even trying out for the team. Ice Hockey is NOT a no-cut sport so 7th and 8th graders CANNOT play on the varsity team.
Willows did not play on CN in 8th grade, although he surely could have, if it was against the policy.
"LoHud" – you are right than CN had an OUTSTANDING 8th grader on their Modified team this year and the coach wanted to bring him up to Varsity for CN's playoff run (or lack thereof), but the AD wouldn't allow it or somehting like that. Nonetheless, that 8th grader will most likely start next year as a Freshman (should he not go to prep school). I've seen him play and he is really good. He could start on a team like Suffern as a Freshman/Sophomore.
I dont know the policies in other schools like North, but in 2004-2005 Pelham had 5 8th graders on their team, Flory, Mamone, Reycraft, Clay and Duffy. I think that all of them just passed some physical test.
not again. How about someting different, like an unmerger? how about one of these corporation 3 or 4 team mergers getting off their butts and actually creating their own high school one school program? Regarding D1 and D2 Pelham and Rye the two strongest d2 programs the last 3 or 4 years hold their own with Mamaroneck and Suffern. While they don t beat them they play them tough. It would be a crime for them to have to over achieve and play "up" against a school twice their size. In a playoff situation would my pearl river boys basketball team play against Mt Vernon New Rochelle or white Plains? why? and hockey is a contact sport. I like the comment about Mamaroneck having Modifed Jv and varsity. Which means if Rye plays them, Mamaroneck due to their amount of players (school numbers affect that) would be playing against a mostly senior and junior team, which Mamaroneck would have, against a team like Rye with less upper classman. Do the math.
I have an idea. You want to merge because you want to keep a team going? Then no state tournament or sectionals for you. If you are not established or strong enough to maintain a school program, and you need help from other schools to fill out a roster maybe you should not be able to compete in Sectionals. You can play in a league, win a league and recieve awards but you do not go to playoffs. Once you get yourself going with a one school program you can come back into the sectionals
In other sports when you merge, the entire balance of the class/division doesnt change. In hockey it does. For example… John Jay (Class A) and North Salem(Class C) combine for football. North Salem cant have its own football team and they asked to combine with Jay. This team now plays as John Jay and is a AA school.(I think this year they split, but whatever) I think in a sport that has 5 classes, like football, that this is acceptable. Jay plays as AA and has to play with the big boys, new ro, north rockland, and I think this makes it fair to the kids at North Salem who want to play football but cant because of their school.
The problem with mergers in hockey is that if a team goes into D-1 from D-II that some team gets knocked down, and that our enrollment cutoff for D-II keeps on getting driven up and up. It might get to the point that D-II will have Mamaroneck, with more than 1000 kids!! Schools like Pelham who play football in class B, and Rye who play in class B, now have to go against playoff schools that are AA? I agree with whoever said that mergers shouldnt be able to compete in D-1 playoffs. I think that if 2 class C schools combine and still are d-2 thats fair, just because its impossible to sustain a program with a school that small. These mergers keep on driving up the enrollment number, making it more and more difficult for smaller schools to survive. if you are going to let Mamo play d-2, then lets just let pelham and rye join together, they only will have enrollment of 100 more than mamaroneck.. Have a few more mergers then Pelham-Rye could conceivably be d-2 in a couple years if this trend continues.
Here's another tidbit regarding Mamk & D2. Harold didn't mention which teams were considering merging, but he did say they would remain a league 4 team. The only league 4 teams which currently are not mergers already are TZ, PR, Nyack, Carmel, Greely, & NewRo. Now unless Greely is going to join up with Sleepy/Irving or Carmel with Somers/North Salem, I would assume he is talking about TZ & Nyack. PR is close by with those two but is able to field a full varsity & modified team. TZ & Nyack each only had about a dozen kids on varsity and a dozen on modified last year.
Based on last year's enrollment numbers, that would put TZ/Nyack at 1,521 and bump them up to D1 leaving us with 16 D1 teams and 13 D2. One team would definitely have to move down to D2 just to keep it somewhat even at 15 D1 & 14 D2, and CS would be the ones to go. What that does is leave Sleepy/Irving at the bottom of D1 with an enrollment of 1,076. Mamaroneck would be 2nd with 1,079. Now enrollment numbers change slightly from year to year, so it is completely possible that Mamk & Sleepy could have a 4-student swing and Mamk would now be #15 out of 29. If that is the case, they could probably make the decision to go D1 or D2 because there would be 29 teams and they would be the one in the middle. It would be interesting to see if the decision is left to Chap, what he would do.
I'd doubt you can get all the Westchester schools to "unmerge" and yes it has has changed the landscape some, but this would have changed regardless. For years Eastchester was a lower rung team and now as part of ETB they are a potential higher league champion. This probably upsets some as they can no longer look forward to the easier games that the stand alone Eastchester team provided.
But an Eastchester program not allowed to merge probably could have folded. If thats the case than someones schedules would have been less to easier games and the leagues or divisions would have to re-align anyway.
IF TZ or Nyack folded, I see little good coming out of that. It's less teams in section 1 and under the current criteria for deciding D1 or D2, it would cause two larger schools, i.e, Clarkstown South, Mamaroneck, or Sleepy Hollow/Irvington (another merged program) to drop to D2, where they surely would be much more of a force than in the D1 playoffs.
Mergers should be about sustaining programs rather than creating superteams.
Does D1 or D2 have to be even?
If a school like Mamaroneck and Clarkstown South are big enough to be classified as AA for football, and the highest divisions for baseball and basketball, they should be required to remain D1 for hockey.
This allows the area smaller school classes, Rye, Pelham, John Jay, etc. to compete against each other for a true "small school" championship.
The Section 1 Chairman and the Athletic Directors can set the teams in whatever division they wish. Some Sections do it according to power. We do it according to school size cut right down the middle. I think if we cap it off at 1,000 or so it doesn't matter if there are 13 teams in D2 and 17 in D1.
Its kind of unfair that the larger schools even think about playing down. Its all about teams looking for ways to get to Utica. Years ago when I played it was Suffern as the only d 1 team. All others were d 2 great for my team, unfair for the smaller schools. We had one really strong team in those years and we lost to Pelham in a semifinal I think. They played Mamaroneck in the d 2 section finals. In order to get there they beat us in the semi and I think a strong New Rochelle team in the quarters and in the first round they beat at physical Clarkstown North game at Playland. After beating North, New Rochelle and us, its no wonder they lost in the finals. Our bigger schools were mostly junior/senior oriented clubs, while Pelham is what they always are, lots of underclassman including a few 8th graders thrust into contributory roles. They were so banged up going into the Mamaroneck game they had no chance. Too bad as it was a great d 2 team that they had, and they never got a chance to compete at the state level playing up against d 1 teams playing down. At the time I didnt think much of it, in retrospect now I think its quite unfair
There are 5 classes in football and 2 in hockye. Where do you draw the parallel between them? By this I mean are the AA football schools considered the D1 schools and everyone else would be considered D2? Does anyone know the enrollment cutoffs for the classes in football? It seems like unless you do it as AA is D1 & everyone else is D2, then it would be horribly lopsided. It doesn't necessarily HAVE to be even, but it also shouldn't come down to 5 in one and 25 in the other either.
It does not necessarily have to be scientific calculation, but 1,000 class size seems to be a good discussion point. For every sport Mamaroneck is classified as a large school, so that one should be easy. Stay in D1
The small schools are easy too…Pearl River, Rye are clearly small schools
What about these now D2 programs and their class sizes..Somers/N Salem 1,050, Yorktown 1,043, Greeley 1,033, Fox Lane 995, Ossining 989?
Any of these programs could be a threat in a given year for a D2 championship. Here's my opinion S/NS by virtue of being a combined program greater than 1,000 students should be D1. Yorktown and Greely are AA sized football schools, they should be D1 for hockey playoffs.
Fox Lane and Ossining are under 1,000 school population and A sized football programs and probably similarly classified for sports like baseball and basketball. This should be the upper limit of the D2 hockey classification. Of course if the state had 3 classifications for hockey, these would be the medium sized schools. But as was explained yesterday, their are not enough hockey playing schools in NYS for more than 2 classifications
This would leave 12 "small" schools to battle for the D2 playoffs. 18 large schools would be in D1. Sure its not split evenly, but it could work for playoffs. Some disparity always would exist, and it does today A New Rochelle with its 2,000 plus students vs. a Mamaroneck with its 1,000 students. An Ossining with its 900 students vs. Pelham with its 450 students.
Its a problem when it becomes a motivation or strategy. To insinuate that teams that are merging are unaware of what quality players they could gain from specific mergers is bogus. It is also bogus when large schools look to drop to DII status for the sake of an easier run to Utica. Why else would they agree to move? I went to a large school and honestly could care less what they do but anyone even without interest can plainly see how fundamentally unfair this is
How about DI is all merged teams and any team that has a AA football designation? Where would that put the numbers for the 2 divisions? Probably somewhere around 20 in DI and 10 in DII this past year. That is a lot like the football playoffs where the large school divisions need more playoff rounds than the small school divisions. The problem would be in running DI playoffs, If more than 16 were eligible for playoffs, you would need an extra round.
We dont need to be even in our split.
Look at football this year. In class B, where Rye, Pelham, and Put Valley play, there are only 12 teams in the entire class. There are also 12 teams in class C as well. There are 23 class A football schools and 18 class AA football schools.
Both of the larger school classes outnumber the smaller school classes. I like the merger and AA size schools being in D-1.
You can't change the rules in the middle of the game. If Mamaorneck is smaller than more than half of the teams, then they should go to D2. What is fair is when you stick to the rules that were made already. Not change them because Mamaroneck will trounce anyone in D2 most likely.
If Willows comes back to North and little Shu doesn't go away to prep, which we don't know yet, then it will be like the Mighty Ducks all over again!! Who will compete with this elite duo in League 1? Suffern loses their whole team: Natoli(the only reason suffern ever wins) and their whole first line(Salt and Ruthberg). Mamaroneck loses:(connor) their only top scorer). Who can stop them?? Yes, I do agree that two players do not make a team and they will have to do a lot more work then they had to when their brothers were around,but look at league 1, the competition has decreased drastically since the 05-06 season. I guess we will have to wait around and see what happens.
Clearly Bash Brothers is just a friend of either willows or shuman otherwise he would have known that rutheberg was not even on first line
or that mamk will be just fine with out connor
suffern doesnt lose their whole first line. they return 2/3 of first line (Jaeger and Hiller-the highest scoring junior in section 1)
last year's lines were:
Salt-Hiller-Jaeger
Ruthberg-Shore-Hill
unless Willows comes back, the Hiller-Hill-? line will be the best in the section
Or that the competition has not "decreased drastically since the 05-06 season".
I now have enough on-the-record sources to confirm that the two schools thinking of merging are Tappan Zee and Nyack.
I love it.. MMK and suffern ganging up on CN!!! this is how you know that the CN vs. suffern rivalry will never end and might be the biggest in the section.
Harold,
Super, another set of Div II schools combining to go Div I. Can you ask the powers of the section if that means yet another Div I team hits the lottery and can now play "down" against teams much smaller? I would like to know if thats the plan if the merger goes through
Thank you
If you've seen Tappan Zee and Nyack play, with all due respect to those kids who try hard, even a combined team is not a particular threat to the balance of power.
If one or both those teams were to fold, than a bigger D1 team would also move down to D2 to keeps the divisions even.
The problem with TZ and Nyack, not traditional hockey hotbeds, is that all the small Westchester schools they used to play with and compete, i.e., Eastchester, have now merged to become stronger schools, or have folded like East Ramapo. This has left these traditionally weaker programs fewer similar programs to play.
TZ AND NYACK don't play DOWN to anyone, no matter how many kids go to each school.
There like everyone else, good at some sports, weak in others. Hockey wise they are clearly at the bottom.
It was pretty much inevitable. TZ's modified team played maybe 5 games all season. The rest were cancelled due to not enough guys. Nyack had to cancel a few modified games due to lack of players as well. At the varsity level, they had a combined 3 wins and about 25 players this past season.
Plus, for TZ, with Fyfe graduating, they will find themselves in a situation similar to the one Harrison was in a few years ago. No goalies coming up through the system (which is why Harrison joined up with Ryetown) and with not enough skaters, they don't even have someone they could try and convert into a goalie. Both programs have been bottom dwellers in the lowest league (league 4 or 5 depending on the year) for years, so that kills interest of the younger kids to start playing when they see what their future is. I would like to see the two try on their own (especially since Nyack was once a strong team even playing in the state chamionship game in 1982, and has been able to sustain a team for somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 years), but I would rather see one TZ/Nack merged team then see both go under.
I think there is a big difference between being at the bottom, and having to cancel 2 whole programs. Anyone who feels this is a bad move clearly isn't much of a hockey fan, or a kid fan for that matter. Lets let these 2 programs go under, forget about the few kids who love to play this game (practice at 10:00 at night) because their school has too many kids. Very sad.
Hockey program success has never been about schools with the largest populations. The 4 great programs in the section are among the smaller schools within their classifications.
I cannot argue with this merger. It may create a respectable league 4 team. To lose 2 of the 7 Rockland County hockey playing high schools wouldn't be a good thing. There are a handful of families in those communities who have been solid youth and travel hockey playing families. It would be good to see these kids continue to have a high school team to play for.
Does anyone know when Empires Start? AND who do you know that is trying out????
Some intelligent points here for sure. Heres my issue, the reference made by lohud
"Plus, for TZ, with Fyfe graduating, they will find themselves in a situation similar to the one Harrison was in a few years ago. No goalies coming up through the system (which is why Harrison joined up with Ryetown) "
So if you do not have a player thats good enough just merge? They had to know they had no goaltenders coming for a while now why didnt the coach or the program do soemthing about it? Why does the league have to bail them out? Rye Harrison is no better. What if Rye HS lost Benicasa to prep school and the next goalie available was a kid coming off modified? They`d have to deal with it right? Didnt Pelham play with only one goalie on the varsity roster for three years? Shehy? and that was in league 1? and they won sections twice correct? They suck it up and figure it out, theydon`t merge.
This is the problem. As stated by Lohud where Lohud says Rye Town Harrison merged because Rye Town had no goalie. If Rye lost Benicasa to prep school and there was no goalie experienced or ready should they merge? No they`d tough it out. Pelham for three years I think had only one varsity goalie rostered. Played in league 1 and won the section twice. They dealt with it. These teams knew they had no goalies in the system for a while, why didnt they try to develop one? Or is it easier to find a school with a high claibre goalie and just merge? Nice short cut.
Yeah what happened to building recruiting and working your own program? Create some interest in the sport at school get kids to play, run a clinic whatever. Oh, thats right why work at it when you can just merge with schools with a few quality travel guys that can turn things around. If I were a coach Id be upset that someof these schools grab travel stars at schools with no program. I think thats what the latest mergers are based on. I will bet the kids from the new added schools have the best players. When schools that had teams merged with schools without teams, I am certain the players added from schools without teams are elite players.
MAMARONECK IS WINNING THE SECTION AGAIN NO IF ANDS OR BUTS, WITH OUT SUFFERN'S SENIORS ESPECIALLY NATOLI AND THE COMPLETE RETURN OF JACKSON MAMARONECK WILL CREATE THEIR OWN STREAK NEXT YEAR THE END
jackson and his 27 career points wont even lead the section in scoring next season
Suffern lost the daniels twins, yorke and kastor, only to come back next season with a more productive offense
the only streak jackson can compete for rivals only marty mcsorely, todd bertuzzi, chris simon, and donald brashear
If Suffern has slow skaters like they did this year… they are going nowhere again. Mamaroneck made them look like a modified team on double-runner skates. Will Suffern develop more than 9 skaters this year? More than 3 D? Will half the team rot on the bench all year?
By the way, there was no kid on Suffern this year that would have made that perfect pass under pressure the way Jackson did for the championship. Sorry to say.
Schellings system and discipline and Team Natoli's goaltending could only take them so far.
Besides Willows dad, who cares if willows comes back?
What is all this discussion about Jackson. What has he ever done other then spend most of his time eithER in the penalty box or being suspended. He's no Connor and he'll never do what Connor has accomplished and there are a number of players that are returning next season that are ALOT better than him.
I agree with HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA that NO one cares, he's not a leader and he'll have more penalty minutes than points…. and Besides Jackson's dad, again who cares!
End of Story!
No one including me ever said Jackson would lead the section in scoring or carry mamk all the way. I am saying with all of Suffern's stars gone there is no one left besides maybe 2-3 good kids, Mamk loses one assest, Conner. No one wants to admit it but there are plenty of other stars on Mamk who were left in Conner's shadow; for example Fine. However Jackson will be a force to be reckoned with next year, it was no coincidence that when he came back in sectionals he started the first game with a hat trick and so forth and eventually got the puck in the finals and went down on a perfect 2 on 1 to give Conner the pass to win the Section. So what I mean to say is suffern isn't going to be bad next year, they have a good prgram and they will be in the top power rankings, but I believe next year is Mamk's year during the season and Sectionals.
"Don't Understand",
Boy do you speak the truth. Plays like a goon all the time and the coach does nothing.
who are favorites to make empires?
fine?
rofofsky?
perelle?
morasco?
*these are 4 favorites i see making the squad. These are all the go to guys on their teams. They all have the potential to play at a high level at hockey. What does everyone think?
i doubt any of them will make it….there are dozens of returning players
north county,
NOT ONE OF THOSE PLAYERS ARE GOING TO MAKE THE EMPIRES.
Not sure which returnees are playing this year but here's the list so far:
Molinaro, Cerbino, Conklin, DiMaggio, Eck, Garnet, King, Monahan, Moscardelli, Reagan, Natoli, Ojeda, Salt, Tuohy
Other top Players who might be trying out:
Willow, Rodgers, Novick, Keagan, Douglas, Odardi,Hiller, Ruthberg,Flory,Sigona, Matranga, Alfonzetti, O’Connor,etc
Then you have all the players from the Prep Schools and around the Newburgh area. It's going to be a VERY strong team.
Good luck to all!
P.S. Morasco is playing Lacrosse.
Encanarco and sigona are the best duo in the section
Harold,
Love the league alignment proposal,
here is the problem I am hearing of why it wont go down.
The problem is in league 1. In order to have a sufficient amount of league games, and still be able to play upstate teams, the only way of doing the league this way is to have a random selection of games besides the ones in the league. For example, in 06/07 League 4 played everyone in their own league + a random selection of league 5 games. So, the league 4 teams at that time who played TZ and Nyack, had a major advantage over the league 4 teams that drew ETB (then in league 5) as one of their randoms. So….The problem is that if someone draws Suffern or Mamo as their random, or even if Suffern and Mamo draw each other, its an extra win or loss for someone who normally wouldn't have one, and it greatly effects the playoffs home advantage.
But, I am all for just having 2 leagues, enough of this 1 to 4 nonsense.
POP OFF,
As long as they're playing League 3 and 4 teams….LOL
yes, they will also be the "cutest couple" at the WP prom
The vipers U16 team lost in the quarter finals yesterday at nationals. Were 2-2, beating New Hartford (who they beat in the state final) 8-2 and the California Stars (13 players on that team were on the team that won nationals in the U14 level last year) 5-4 with 2 late goals by Ronny Sherding and Bradlee Pesce. They lost to the eventual national champion Belle Tire from Detroit 5-1 and then lost in the quarters to the Jr. Phantoms out of New Jersey 2-0. So I guess they are only one of the top eight teir II U16 in the country.
Not sure how to read that last one. Those two players mentioned are above average high school players, juniors in high school right? They are not in the top ten or maybe 20? in our area. Nice players though. SO if they are two ofthe best kids on that Viper team how can that viper team be "one of the top 8 in the country"
makes sense?
I would think a team that is "one of the top 8 in the country" would have the areas absolute best players on it. Would you think?
The best Midget Minor players in this area would be either playing Midget Majors or Juniors. Oh well let the debate begin~ This should be a good one!
In league 2
were those the slow skating, modified looking, double bladed, tripods of the Suffern varsity that beat Mamaroneck 7 of the last 9 times they played them? Just curious.
Actually, i was just giving credit to 2 of our players who scored clutch goals. when i said top 8, it was immediatly followed by the level at which we play. There are higher levels around in westchester and rockland, but non of them were more successful. And the vipers are as high school friendly as the mariners. Also, our team was full of lower league players who are unchallenged by high school, especially our goalies and best player Craig Halpin who all play in league 4. We have 2 mahopac players, 1 from IP, 1 from RCDS, and the rest in leagues 2, 3, or 4. But those kids have a state championship in their accomplishments, which not many other of those top players have. And the team made up of the best players in the section is the empire state team, and they dont play in the winter. Does that make sense?
And by the way, when did i say those players were the best? And i thought a team was made up of many players, not a couple superstars. This is travel i was talking about, not high school
Congratulations to the Vipers. Your run was a great accomplishment for a local travel program. Most of the skaters on that team will be headliners next year in Section 1.
Regarding Mamo's skaters. They are the sectional favorites next year. But, they will do it as a group, not with "player of the year" standouts. They have no top 10 forward, but a bunch of top 25 forwards. Thats how they get it done. And the level of play is pretty high because of that depth.
Regarding Empires. Due to the age group change, none of north county's list will make it if the eligible kids from last year's team reurn (most of last year's team is eligible under this year's rule). If some of last year's players still eligible this year decide not to play, then maybe someone like Perelle has a shot, if he decides not to do LAX. There are lots of other skaters well ahead of the rest on your list.
Another section 1 former player is heading for collegiate hockey.
Former Mahopac HS standout player (beleive he was Westchester player of the year) Greg Ciciola is listed as having committed to Hobart for the 08 – 09 season.
Great school, great hockey program.
League 3 and 4 were extremely cometitive. Unless you watched the bottom team in each league play, you would have never known any of these teams were in the supposedly worst league.
Disagree that they go unchallenged. The Carmel goalie had all he could handle, and if it wasn't for his brilliance, they wouldn't even had won the 3 games they won all year. And I believe one of the reasons Halpin is your best player is because of how he is developing on his HS team.
Playing tier 2 and making it that far is something the vipers should be proud of, much more so than the tier 3 championship banners hanging at WSA. I still don't understand that, do they still have tier 3 championships? Well they shouldn't. Congrats you are the champion "B or C" team, why bother.
Also noticed the Daniel Twins played in the U18 Tier 1 championships. Nice to see that Mid Fairfield squad is still dominating after all these years, going back to the days of Tommy Holmes, Eric Bogunecki, Ryan and Sean Haggerty, Chris Drury, and Eric Lind
Oh, and Cicola is another example of how there is no rush, hes got to be what 20, 21? All the hard work is finally paying off
Wasnt Ciciola written about in the journal news a few years ago palying juniors away from home, spending lots of time on the road? How long has he been at it? Congrats but all that time, effort, $$$ for a D3 spot? Seems crazy to me
Exactly Sect 1,
Exactly Sect 1,
I agree with you. Congrat's to him but to play D3 after all these years has to make you think. Just realize how good he was when he played High School and match up todays talent vs Ciciola. Not to many of todays players even come close to him. The sad thing is he probably should be graduating this year versus just becoming a freshman next year. Wonder if he had to do it all over again, if he would go the same route?
Anyway good luck to him. Just shows how difficult it is out there!
Exactly
Playing hockey for D3 Hobart is a tremendous accomplishment. The D3 road can be just as rewarding as the D1 experience (in some cases even better). I'm sure that he'll have a great college experience. Delaying college so he can go on terms he perfers makes plenty of sense if playing hockey is worth it to him. If you feel the cost is too much, nobody is saying that it works for everyone.
There are a number of kids that miss playing when the enter college. Many of them wish they would have gone the route Greg chose. You only get one pass through each stage of life, there are no do overs. He took a shot at playing the highest level he could play and made it pretty far!!!
There is a difference between facing 40 shots against a game against a team with only 2 players at your level and facing 25 shots against a team were all the opposing players play at your level. The speed of the game in L4 is very slow compared to what a goalie like Glaviano (the carmel goalie) is used to. You get used to playing with adrenalin and you expect shots to come in harder then they do and it screws up your timing. It is like getting a knuckleball when your expecting a fastball. However, the vipers (at least that team) have very good defense that could clear rebounds and are aware enough not to screen their goalies. Glaviano and even Feliu (new ro) do not have that in high school, so it forces them to work on rebound control and playing the puck. So both are a challenge, just different.
I know this is a hs blog, but here is something for anybody who said all players prefer hs to travel. Do you think the New Rochelle goalie is happier with winning league 4 or winning a state championship? I wrote this because i was thinking about all the talk of the ETB guys earlier this year. Both of those guys won nationals when they were Pee Wees with the Avalanche, and I believe Clare was on that team too. Playing in front of maybe 50 more people then usual because they are fans is fun, but not as much fun as winning a championship at level were opposing players are at least near your skill level.
Winning a pee wee national championship is a great accomplishment and a life long memory. A terrific accomplishment for a 7th grader!
However, by time you get to high school, the 6 or 7 years you've put in travel hockey, while worthwhile, are just not as exciting anymore. For most kids you'll get a bigger charge playing with your high school friends in front of an excited highschool crowd, against a rival school. You feel the electrictity playing before 300 people of your community…
All of this is, after all, just entertainment. Whether for the players or the fans, its just that. So, to have it play out in front of a large passionate fan base is hard to trump, no matter what the skill level increase travel may offer. Travel is a great way to develop and maintain skills, but HS games is where it is at, especially the Sectional playoffs and extra especially for those teams lucky enough to make it to the Section finals and first round of the state tourney. While a trip to Utica is a great honor, I prefer the atmosphere of the meaningful games hosted by one of the participants (so there is a "home ice" feel) that lead up to Utica (neutral site feel).
outside of suffern and Mamo not many teams have 300 fans at their games. maybe if all those deep league viper players had that, they wouldn't care about travel so much. I think it comes down to how competitive the player is. A truely intense competitor is happier against kids at their level, not dominating against a team with many inexperienced
to most hs teams- In addition to Friday nites at SOR and Saturday nites in the Jungle, I saw huge crowds at some of the "rivalry" CHSHL A league games at Playland, Murrays and the Ice Hutch. Rye and RTH both draw big crowds at Playland, especially when they play each other. I would expect Pelham draws a few 100 for their games at the Hutch. It was standing room only for the sectional final vs. Rye. There have to be other venues that get the good crowds.
the lion could sleep in the jungle because mamaroneck had about 23 fans at the first suffern game, suffern outnumbered them
North Rockland drew a few hundred for the big game against ETB that clinched them the League 3 title back in early February. Granted, they had a 30-piece marching band there, but even so, it was a decent sized crowd.
Why HS hockey matters?
This well visited high school hockey blog is an indication of high school hockeys popularity.
The last time I looked the "club and junior" hockey blog was kind of quiet.
Not many teams outside of L1 have large crowds. SOR on fridays and saturdays at the jungle are great, but sunday nights at brewster and saturdays at SOR are not as exciting. As for popularity, the only player outside of L1 or the CHSHL that gets mentioned is Rui, and it is usually to talk about how overrated he is because he plays in L2, even though he has a better chance of playing D3 then any other player that plays in section 1.
Playlands crowds for Rye and Suffern crowds and Pelhams crowds are always good.
Well Rui played on the only legit junior A team as a senior, which is impressive. He has a legitimate chance to play in college. By the was there is no way anyone would want to play in some junior playoff game rather than play in front of close to 1000 ppl at the ice hutch for a section championship.
No question, unless you turn pro or play big division 1 hockey you will never play in front of that kind of crowd or atmosphere like that.
The Hutch atmosphere is really awesome
In my mind nothing beat the North-Suffern games when North was really good (pre-this year). They games were the best.
correction & sec1 fan,
Your both have been drinking too much kool-aid. Rui is good but I would take a Salt,Conner & King over a Rui any day of the week. They are better skaters and better all around hockey players then Rui.They all could of made Junior "A" teams this year but they opted to concentrate on High School. And their results were all amazing. All three of these players made the Empires last year, I don't think Rui made it? What does that tell you and don't tell me it was all politics!
I said nothing about him in comparison to those other players. I said he played legit junior A on a team with kids out of high school and that he had a legit shot at playing college hockey. Because none of those 3 did play junior a they will still have a shot to walk on but I dont think any of them will play college hockey other than club.
North/Suffern games were the best-
nothing like it- sold out crowd—more people looking in from the outside—and exciting games right to the finish! Those games surely are missed.Get Real….I am sick of "what empire team did Rui make last year" Why don't you ask Chris Huntington and if he had the balls would tell you the truth. Rui left Brewster and went to Applecore and yes, that is where the politics begin. You are a loser and must really suck at hockey and can not give credit where credit is due. It must suck being that jealous of someone that you have to keep trying to knock him down. Who are you? Oh I forgot…. you're anonymous and have no balls either!
he is great, but not a top 3 HS player in Section 1
however, good luck with all your future endeavors
That must strike a cord. I hear Billy Crystal gives an excellent anger management lecture.
Whose angry? Get Real is the belligerent one(big word -use those academics to figure it out because hockey is not getting you into college.) lol lol He is also probably Really? WOW. You need counseling man! Rui is a great kid and a great player. Get over him already!
This White Plains kid has a great publicity department. Very aggressive group. He is a strong offensive player. I think offensively he is in a category with the top 5 guys in our section. However I cannot project any of those as being D1 and maybe a reach to the weaker D 3 teams. They are probably all club players which is fine as club is getting stronger and stronger. Look at the rosters, there are a lot of junior players ending up on club teams
REALLY?,
Mama's taking care of her little cub! The top senior players will most likely be playing club hockey. Rui will be playing club hockey 3 years from now!
Hey Really, you say that Get Real has no balls because he/she is anonymous (although if it's a she it might be hard to have balls). So who are you? Do you have balls?
Why does it interest you guys so much that you argue amongst yourselves …people sticking up for him….people bashing him. If he isn't that good, why so much attention & discussion…lol lol lol
Because it's always his MOMMIE that writes about him and we're just busting chops!
Sorry….you are wrong. This is Mommie and I just chimed in. I do not need to hide behind anonymous names. Most people know this is my tag! So then you do know he is good and you are just busting MY CHOPS….dirty….dirty…dirty playing boys! LOl LOL LOL
"If he isn't that good, why so much attention & discussion?"
That is an invalid argument. Let us, for argument's sake, take a look at one counter example. Suppose I say "Player X is a great player." as one premise and that "if someone posts on the blog that there exists a player that is a great player, then people will stick up for him and people will 'bash' him" Let us also say that player X isnt really good at all. Yet, someone still posts that he is a great player. It is invalid because it is irrelevant whether or not people pay attention or discuss it, it still is an invalid argument that because there is attention and discussion that he's good. There could be discussion and attention paid to a player who isnt good, correct?