New Roc rink closing?
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- April
- 8
There’s a good chance that the number of rinks in Section 1 will shrink by one before next season. Cappelli Enterprises, which owns New Roc City, is trying to lure Target and Kohl’s, and would close the ice rink (and other entertainment venues) to make room for the department stores. I’ll post my story as soon as I can.
This would directly affect New Rochelle and Byram Hills, who play home games at New Roc, and Rye Town/Harrison, who practices there twice a week. I did a story early in the season about how hard it is to secure ice time around here, and it will be interesting to see what happens. My best guess is New Ro goes to the Ice Hutch, Byram Hills goes back to Brewster, and RT/H scrambles.
Nothing has been decided for certain. The affected coaches say they haven’t heard anything from rink management—not for lack of trying—and my calls weren’t returned. New Rochelle parents have circulated a petition and are going to city council meetings to try and stop the developments. But it doesn’t look good.
Ironically enough, if New Rochelle would just build another ice rink to replace New Roc (like at City Park?), this could be better for area hockey. But no one is promising that, and either way a new facility wouldn’t be open in time for next season.
When it first opened, with the NHL-sized rink and the skating rink (where the go carts are now), New Roc was a beautiful facility. But when a different company took over, it became notoriously expensive and horribly mis-managed. There were problems with ice cuts (sometimes they just didn’t occur, and when they did the Zamboni drivers weren’t trained so sometimes the ice would be flooded, or cut to the cement). It was more than $400/hour and schools were charged for ice cuts, which doesn’t happen at some other rinks.
Still, it was one of the few area rinks that stayed open during the summer, and selfishly I’m upset because New Roc had wireless, so I could file stories easily, and then go to Applebee’s for dinner. I will keep you posted when I hear more.
On a completely unrelated note, I was talking to Pelham coach Ed Witz and New Ro coach Jim Tozzo for the story and picked up a nugget on each team. Pelham and Rye will host Queensbury and Glens Falls the weekend before Christmas (remember, Section 1 plays Section 2 in the Division II state quarterfinals next season), and the Pelicans will also travel to Salmon River/Saranac Lake, the Niskayuna tournament and the Massena tournament.
Tozzo said New Rochelle will at least move up to League 3, and League 2 is also a possibility. Of course, the bigger question at the moment is, where will they play?
This entry was posted
on Tuesday, April 8th, 2008 at 9:08 pm by Harold Gutmann.
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Finally we get some of these upstate teams down here.
A little more than 7 and a half months until hockey season and im pumped. Are any other teams stepping it up and playing in these elite tourneys as well?
The New Roc rink closing would be bad but not THAT bad, I really hope that New Rochelle builds another rink to replace the New Roc one. That way maybe a couple of the Ice Hutch teams could go to New Ro and there would be better ice times for everyone overall.
Lets go into the history of this. In my opinion you can not only thank New Roc for hurting hockey in 2008 and beyond, but lets not forget Iona College. We had a Division 1 team here a few years ago. It was awesome and they played out of the Ice Hutch (those guys love hockey and give a damn about it) The moment New Roc opened New Roc put pressure on the city and the college to move the team out of Mt Vernon to New Roc. The team had to move. Once at New Roc, $$$ became important. They charged full price and high prices for Ionas ice, (Ice Hutch worked with the budget and gave them a much better ice price) and eventually that $$$ crunch was one (not all) of the reasons Iona went out. New Roc it seems promised the citizens a rink in order to get the deals to build the entire New Roc complex, now that they got what they want, tax deals, etc they don`t have to appease the citizens. The rink was never hockey friendly, or high school or anything friendly, totally mismanaged and it will hurt the teams who decided to skate there in the first place. Keep in mind New Rochelle high school originally skated at the Ice Hutch too, and they had good times, but of course moved out once New Roc opened.
Hopefully Ice Hutch will have room for New Ro and the others but I think that rink is always full. Iona was smart moving to the Ice Hutch last season, and they are safe it seems
New Roc,
Not new news! If you were involved with High School Hockey or Travel Hockey, it has been rumored for the past 2-3 years that New Roc was closing. This is no surprise at all.
So I'm a little puzzled by some of the comments in Today's Journal.
It was also said that a new Rink was going to be built in New Rochelle. But that might be all the politicians lying to all of us AGAIN!
Should be an interesting pre Xmas week for the Garnets. After hosting Queensbury and Glenns Falls over the weekend, I think they plan to head up to Rome, NY for the DII tourney Rome Free Academy hosts. Last year it was RFA, Queensbury, Sweet Home and Rye (all top 10 teams). Nice to see the upstate teams venture south to play Section 1. I am sure Suffern and Mamo will book a bunch of games with the upstate D I hotshots.
Not being a construction or even a rink guy, I was talking to some people. Building and running a rink is no easy task. Energy costs (have you bought gas for your car lately, or paid an electric or gas bill?) has got to hurt the rink business as its all energy. Keeping the rink open all year and solvent must be a challenge as well. For the most part I am sure that activity in rinks during winter months of November December January and February are fine but I bet its a tough challenge keeping busy in the spring and summer.
Harold,
When is the Hockey year end All County selections and MVP journal issue coming out?
Interesting calling upstate a bunch of hotshots for not playing section I teams. Upstate teams always done their schedules two to three years ahead of time. It seems like section I has been getting into the circle lately…
Rinks in malls are just not a good idea, see Palisades example.
Maybe there is no leverage to do this, but if the mall operators do not want ice rinks they should build and donate a facility to the town for its operation. Would a Target or Kohl's help towards this? Tax breaks from town in return?
These facilities are expensive to operate, but than close down for the late spring and summer. Other rinks should be available to pick up any slack for spring leagues and clinics, etc. It looks like New Rochelle has started a nice little learn-to-skate program that I have seen featured in the Journal News a couple of times. This tells me that their is definitely a part of the community that wants ice hockey..
suffern will…but when has mamaroneck ever booked a hot shot?
guilderland? shaker, shaker again, cortland.
the best team mama plays each year is just over the TZ bridge and plays out of SOR
Heard they were both going to the Massena Tourn with Massena and Saratoga.
to interesting- I didn't mean to take a shot at the upstate teams' scheduling policy. Was only saying Suffern and Mamo usually try to get some of them on their schedule. It is good to see some Section 1 teams getting in the rotation to play the upstate "name" teams and even better to see some of them venture downstate to play us (Section 1).
Seems like the whole scene of HS hockey is changing. This is a postive in promoting the HS game in NY state. The more intersectional games that are played by the TOP teams the more reason there is to play HS hockey.
This is really depressing news. It really seemed like ice hockey was going to really explode when WSA, Ice Hutch, and New Roc all opened w/in a relatively short time of one another.
It really is frustrating that the major impediment to the growth of our sport is facilities. Can you imagine their being a shortage of basketball courts or baseball fields?
Does anyone know from experience how much it costs to own and operate an ice rink? How much would it cost for the city of New Rochelle to build a rink similar to Ebersole? Just a lobby, locker rooms, and an outdoor rink with a roof.
I've heard that a 2 rink indoor facility costs $4-$5million to build. Then after building it there must be pretty significant operating costs to keep and maintain the ice.
The New Roc location doesn't really make sense for an ice rink. It's in a prime retail location. As long as a rink is in a location like that, there will always be the temptation for the owners to convert the property to a more profitable use. Hockey players don't care where it is. It can be out of the way or in and industrial area as long as its accessible and there is ample parking.
Dorothy Hammil rink in Greenwich, Hommocks, Ebersole and EJ Murrays are all run by the town rec depts. This makes more sense to me. You don't want a rink that is in constant jeopardy of being closed.
Also Playland is run by Westchester County Dept of Parks and Rec.
Taylor…at least build something nicer than Ebersole! One indoor rink open and operated by the town from September to the end of March could host a youth program, a couple of high schools and public skating. This would be a nice public amenity.
Off season use? Roller hockey, tennis, basketball or just keep it closed to save money. Afterall they close very expensive public swimming pools up to 9 months a year when they are not normally used.
Travel Team, agreed. I think the outdoor rink with the roof is probably the cheapest of all options. Hamill in Greenwich is exactly what you described. Pretty bare bones. A small snack bar/warming area, bleachers, locker rooms and the rink. It is just closed down after the middle of March. No roller hockey, tennis or anything. RCDS used to have tennis in their rink in the offseason because there used to be tennis balls lodged in the rafters. I don't think they do that anymore.
I think a single ice surface indoor rink would cost about $2million to build. How much to operate I have no idea. I don't think it would pay for itself even with ice fees at $325/hr 14hrs/day 7days/week. If you could bring in $4,000/day for 30 days/month for 5 months you would bring in $585,000 for the season.
On the web I found a proposal for a new Hockey Arena at Penn State University. Of course the costs of building a 6500 seat arena are far greater than for 500 seat simple rink but some of the costs are comparable. The estimated cost for electricity to keep the ice year-round is $1million. A Zamboni costs $400,000 but lasts 30yrs.
And you got these figures where, Taylor? You think it would cost about 2 mil. to build, where did that # come from? Just a guess I would imagine. Now I don't know how much it costs to build a rink and I have a feeling you don't either.
I was told that New England prep school built a two rink facility for $5million. I adjusted down from that based on only 1 rink and bare bones with no amenities. True its a rough guess. You are right that is probably too low. Here's a link to a 2001 newspaper article discussing a rink proposal in Juneua (Alaska I believe) and it was $3miilion in 2001. So $3-4million for a simple 1 rink facility is probaby more like it.
the link :
http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/020401/Loc_Rink.html
New Rochelle already has a zamboni and the equiptment for a rink at new roc. They just have to transfer the stuff over to the new rink (if they build one). I personally would love to see the zamboni driving thruogh downtown New Rochelle.
The Patriots are a 91 AAA team that has played out of new roc for 4 years. They had the contract for the entire spring through July, but were informed that their last practice at new roc will be monday. Besides the kids from westchester on the team (about 15) including 2 new ro players, there are a few kids that drive over an hour to get there from Jersey or long island, and now have to go even further to cram into a smaller locker room and play at later times. Not just the high school players getting screwed by this.
The zamboni at New Roc is shot, and its electric so I doubt it would be driving anywhere soon. Its not that easy and its a costly business to run I`m sure
New Roc had just started open hockey at 8:30pm on Tuesdays. Do you know how hard it is to find open hockey at the good of a time? You have to be unemployed to play at a better time.
A Zamboni costs about 85,000.
With the equipment that Capelli (The main guy who has decided to take out the rink) has "donated" to the city (Zamboni, boards, piping, etc.) it will only coast about $1 Mill. Yet, they give Capelli a $50 Mill tax cut or something like that, and he can not give a share of it to build a rink.
Also, timing is not an issue at all. If they could put up a 39 story building in less then 2 years, they can put up a small rink in 6 months.
capelli is a goon
Business is business. I don't blame them for putting in a store. New Rochelle might build a rink at City Park but not for a few years. Running a rink is not a lucrative business, New Rochelle City has to do what is best for New Rochelle. I mean only New Rochelle and Byram Hills played out of there, they survived before that rink and they will survive after that. New Ro High school has had way too many losing years, and wasted money to feel bad for them.
I have heard from a few people that the rink at the Palisades Mall will be closing soon as well. I hear the travel team that operates there were notified last week. Has anyone heard anything of this?
. As for building a rink at city park, it is not going to happen, and if it does, it will be a long long time. They just put in new soccer and football fields there, and the baseball and softball fields are being renovated for baseball and softball, which leaves not nearly enough space for a rink and all that parking that a rink would need.
New Roc was doomed from the start. They could of put two full size rinks in. You then could of done a ton of tournaments and camps year round. A rink next to a hotel with restaurants and a entertainment center should of been a hockey destination. They should of lowered the ceiling on both rinks and reduced the heating/AC costs. Instead they had one sheet plus a mini rink, brought in a staff from NYC that acted like hired hot shots. They turned off the clients, had their own interests in mind and chased customers away. There is no need for public outcry. The place has been going out of business for 3 to 4 years. Why the story hit now is anyones guess. They have been chasing people away all year. New Rochelle HS plays a bit at the Ice Hutch and will just have to work their needs in. Byram Hill will save on fuel for their bus by skating in Brewster which is where they should be anyway. Rye Town has a couple of options closer to them. ew Rochelle travel is a couple of young kids that can find ice someplace else and will be fine. What the hockey community should be talking about is what happen to the Ice Hutch 2nd rink. Why is Mt. Vernon dragging their feet or whoever is involved. There is a obvious need for it and the Hutch runs a nice business that operates year round. Plus the people there know hockey and are friendly. Very important if you are a client with ice costs over $450 a hour.
Palisades Rink.
It can't be closed. I might be wrong hear, but the Palisades Mall management is capped by Clarkstown on the amount of retail space they can have at the Mall. They are at the limit now. Only a public vote can allow the Mall to expand (this was agreed upon as a condition to receiving Town approval). A vote taken about 5 years ago to allow the Mall to expand retail was overwhelmingly rejected by Clarkstown voters.
I have no doubt that Palisades would prefer to close the rink, and convert the space to retail, but for now nothing else "retail" could be put their. For the time being the Mall tolerates the rinks existance.
I'd like to see Clarkstown strike a deal to allow more retail at the Mall in exchange for building a new off-site skating facility to be operated by Clarkstown.
Travel Team, you are correct. Even if that vote did go through a few years back (or now if they tried again), it would still take a while to close the Palisades rink. There is so much space in that mall that is empty (hard to believe based on how large the mall is). But if you start at the Elevators in the middle of the mall on the 4th floor (The ones near Dave & Busters) and start walking to the rink, you'll notice that after Dave & Busters, there is nothing until you get to the rink. Not only can they put more shopping in if it were allowed, they could put in 2 more anchor stores the size of a Kohl's in there, one on each side of the hallway. Not to mention that Lord & Taylor is only on the first two floors with the 3rd & 4th floors above it being empty space, so they could fit another big department store like a Nordstrom or Boscov's in there as well.
They most likely wouldn't go the route of putting in 3 additional huge anchor stores, so they would probably have another 50 or so storefronts there before they would run out of space. Once that happens, they would probably get rid of those conference room-type things right outside of the rink that no one ever uses and could put in another dozen stores before needing to close the rink. It would take quite some time to find 60-75 retail stores that don't already have a presence in that mall to fill up that area.
What a scam and what a game. The rink was built to rebuild the community in the area. Cappelli has purposely mismanaged and increased rates as to get back the building and get back the rights. They were told from the start to put 5-6 thousand seats in and to make it an arena with events. They crushed a growing Iona program. They mismanaged the ice. They were told not to put in the useless second central park rink and then go carts? I understand the business decisions made…however, the rights and the money and tax breaks went to build this facility. Not another version of the New Rochelle Mall. As a community Cappelli, the planning board and our politicians should be taken to task for allowing the poor running of the facility as well as the closing of the rink. It is disgraceful.
A disgrace: Your absolutely correct but of course no one will do anything about it for us little people. A true shame but I guess who needs youth hockey when you have Target, Kohl, Trump. Walgreens. While your at it get some coffee at the New Rochelle Diner before it gets torn down.
Get the 2nd rink at the Ice Hutch built ASAP.
Good posts and true posts. The New Roc rink was always a disaster from start to finish. They had more strangers and out of towners using the rink than New Rochelle groups and people.
They were less than cooperative and did little to help customers or high school or travel teams. Many of the corporate style rinks can be simularly cold to customers but at least they are open consistent and reliable.
Who wants to build a rink? I'm serious. How do we get a rink built? Find a rich guy to front the money? Petition out town/city govt? Petition Westchester County to build another rink? How is this done?
I think you can put up an "Ice Hutch" type rink in a bubble pretty quickly. Anyone who plays travel hockey in the Long Island League knows that the Rinx complex in Happaugue, NY (where Suffolk PAL plays) put up a third sheet of ice this past season under a bubble in the parking lot of the main twin rink complex. Pretty basic amenities. Penalty box right next to the limited spectator stands. I think they plan to take it down each summer. It is good quality ice in the winter. They play AAA travel on it.
Building a single rink makes it more difficult to be profitable and survive. WSA in Elmsford is a profitable business. But, look at all they have. A huge in-house program, Vipers, Bronxville, a ton of year round mens leagues. The incremental cost of the second rink is usually much less and that is what makes it easier to be profitable. I would love to see Manhattanville in partnership with Westchester County do something. If they built a 2 rink facility that would have a decent size seating in one rink it would help the visability of their program. It would help attract other hockey events/tournamets. There certainly are some very rich guys in Westchester/Greenwich that may like to see their name on a rink. There are still a good number or youth programs that struggle for ice. Greenwich Blues have Dorthy Hamil, but still need to use Stamford Twin Rinks, and even The Rinks @ Shelton (ct). They were also fairly regular users of NewRoc also. Im pretty sure the demand is there for another facility, but it has to be done right…..
Its no secret that rinks are not a great profitable business. There are some reasons why. As stated above energy costs can never be caught up with. The other problem I get from speaking to rink guys is that most youth programs will not buy ice year round unless forced to. Some rinks, WSA, and Playland make teams buy ice for the whole calendar year, if you can do that fine, if not, its tough to make ends meet I would guess. There are many hidden expenses I am sure as well.
Guys, its about the $$$$ guys, its greed greed greed. The hell with the kids. Make him an offer he cant refuse.
Good hockey out of WSA the adult top league there has a team consisting of the 3 greaney boys and suffern guys that play on the ny saints w/Natoli as goaltender. last week they took on a team w/ mostly Mamo players and Luke G as goalie. should be even better summer league when the college players come home.
I don't think New Roc loses money so much as it doesn't make nearly as much as the proposed retail stores would. I don't claim to know this for sure though. Its private and I don't think the profitability of the rink is public information.
Hi I am a former NRHS Varisty Hockey Player that just left the team this year… and I'm disgusted with what the New Rochelle City Government has let happened. Sooner or later, all of the "Recreational" areas throughout New Rochelle will be deemed non-profitable and will be turned into more retail and real estate…
It is a fact that the ice rinks, at least the hockey venue, at NewRoc had been profitable. At $400/hour, this ice is the most expensive in the area. Management is to blame for lost revenue. If the Ice Hutch can think to expand their site, why is it that a rink in New Rochelle (City Park) is unfathomable? I think the City Council owes it to the citizens of New Rochelle (we do pay their salaries, don't we?) a detailed, non-evasive answer as to whether or not this will be done. The following was sent to the City Council:
"It is a fact that the owners of New Roc City have enjoyed significant tax breaks from our City. As they are seeking to extend these breaks, the Ice Rink will become a causality in the name progress for down town New Rochelle.
The ice rink is used by thousands of children each year. It has always been profitable. Programs sponsored by New Rochelle Parks and Recreation, New Rochelle Middle and High Schools and New Rochelle Youth Hockey rely on this venue. New Roc is also a safe place for New Rochelle youth to pass time in a healthy and socially positive way. Do not allow private business to gain millions in tax advantages at the expense of our youth.
Please implore the Cappelli organization to reconsider the future of the ice rink. At the very least, as a condition of the generous tax incentives, demand that the rink's demise be postponed until a suitable replacement is constructed in the City of New Rochelle."
The Mayor replied:
"Thank you for your comments. I recognize that the New Roc ice rink is enjoyed by many families, and that its closure is a loss for New Rochelle – albeit one that must be weighed against the substantial benefits of new retail in our downtown.
The City administration, with the unanimous support of the Council, recently executed an agreement with park design consultants to examine the feasibility of creating a new ice rink at City Park on Fifth Avenue.
I am hopeful that this analysis will reach a positive conclusion and that the construction of a new rink will prove practical. I will do my best to achieve this goal.
Best,
Noam Bramson"
Looks like Darien Ice Rink will be closing too. Same deal. The owner is selling it to developers who want to turn it into an office park.
I read an artical earlier this year that said the new rochelle youth hockey organization had something like 95 kids between the ages of 4 and 8 and more impressive was that 35 players were playing with financial aid, meaning new rochelle hockey is tapping into the large population that could not afford to play otherwise. This means NRHS hochey team can have a deep and high talent team in a few years which could be a top 5 team again. They will a have a very good team next year. They are set in goal at least until little Feliu (a 7th grader) graduates, they have 3 other good 7th grade forwards coming up (one next year), Prunesti, (with a more impressive career outside of hs before turning 15 then any current player in sec 1 has had) for 3 more years (unless he leaves for juniors), a good defenceman who played this year as an 8th grader, and about 7 or 8 solid underclasmen and modifeid players to keep them competitive for a few more years until the homegrown players can play for new ro again.
I am another Senior from this past year's NRHS Varsity Hockey team. I am disgusted by the utter disregard for the New Rochelle Hockey program by the City of New Rochelle. Not only will the loss of New Roc be detrimental to the youth program, but also to the high school players. I enjoyed playing all of my years for New Rochelle High School at New Roc with 4:30 P.M. practices and 7:00 P.M. Thursday night games. With the loss of New Roc and the scramble for ice time the team for the years to come will be playing at unreasonable hours. From what I have heard some of the ice slots that the middle and high school students are looking at are close to 10:00 P.M. starting time. This is bad for their health and their ability to do school work.
I am completely shocked that New Rochelle is doing so little to help its citizens.
Kenny,
Don`t tell that to the teams practicinf out of Brewster. All their times are late. High school teams at some rinks take a back seat to youth teams
It is unbelievable how much disregard there is for town resources. New Rochelle is a community. People, especially young children and athletes live here. They live here because they are gaurenteed an atmosphere where they can excel and learn. When the rink is demolished, it completley eliminates the opportunity for our people to learn and participate in the sport of hockey; A sport valued by a masive amount of New Rochelle locals. New rochelle is not a buisnuess center, it's OUR community. This is a major embarasment to what a town and community represents.
This should get more coverage in the paper instead of the blog. This should be front page that the rink is being closed, that the tax breaks Capelli gets to keep, that the politicians are letting this happen. I believe Capelli helped block another rink a few years ago as well. Hey put this in the paper…dont let New Ro politicians keep doing business this way. Noah..we voted for you and believed as a New Ro boy that you would do right by this way.