All-star/all-county selections
-
- April
- 13
At long last, The Journal News Westchester/Putnam all-star and Rockland all-county teams are here. There were a ton of great candidates to choose from, which is a good problem to have but still led to some very tough decisions. In Rockland, I polled every coach. For Westchester/Putnam, I talked to every League 1 coach and a selection from Leagues 2-4 and the CHSHL, and together this is what we came up with.
A few things to keep in mind: the all-star/all-county awards go to the players who had the best high school season. So club/travel teams and career accomplishments are two things that had no bearing on the selections. It is not necessarily a list of the most talented players who happen to live in our coverage area. It is a list of the players who had the best season. Also, statistics played a role, but mostly in cases where players had similar schedules (for instance, stats weren’t as important when judging Suffern and North Rockland players, since they came in completely different circumstances). Next, I really wish I had a seventh forward spot and a fifth defenseman spot for Westchester/Putnam. And finally, though every player was judged on his own merit, I guess there was a theme on both teams—to the winners goes the spoils.
Here is the feature story on Tom Natoli, the Rockland player of the year, and the article on Brian Conner, the Westchester/Putnam player of the year. Congratulations to them both.
The rest of the Westchester/Putman first team:
Jordan Eck, Rye: The senior forward led the DIvision II sectional champions with 29 goals and 46 points, but it was his clutch play that was most impressive. He scored the winner in the sectional final against Pelham, had both goals in the state playoff game against Thousand Island, and scored both goals in the team’s 2-2 tie with Suffern.
Luke Glaser, Mamaroneck: The junior goalie posted six shutouts and recorded a 1.74 goals-against average and 93.7 save percentage against the area’s toughest schedule. He was great on breakaways, controls rebounds well, keeps a stable, low-key demeanor and kept his team in every game down the strech, never allowing more than three goals in the last 14 games.
Sean Hagan, Mamaroneck: The 6-foot-5 junior is a good passer and has one of the game’s hardest slap shots. As a result, he tallied 36 assists, fourth in Section 1 and tops among all defensemen. He was also an effective leader with great reach who kept his composure under pressure and had very good postitioning.
Cody King, Iona Prep: The senior forward used his tremendous speed and hockey sense to record team highs of 29 goals and 37 assists, including the overtime winner that gave Iona Prep the CHSHL championship over Stepinac. The White Plains resident, who is also the school president, was fourth in the area in points (66) and finished with 182 points in his three seasons.
K.J. McCabe, Iona Prep: A steady, two-way defenseman, the White Plains resident has led the the CHSHL champions in ice time for three straight seasons, often logging upwards of 30-35 minutes a game. He’s almost impossible to beat one-on-one, he’s very good with his stick and he makes smart decisions. The senior finished his Gaels career with 61 points and two all-league selections.
Coach Mike Chiapparelli, Mamaroneck: In the course of winning the Division I sectional title, Chiapparelli’s team did what no one else could – beat top-ranked Suffern, which entered the final with a 45-game unbeaten streak. The Tigers won all 14 of their games against Westchester/Putnam teams and finished the season ranked No. 4 in the state with a 23-4-1 record.
Second team
F: Brett Novick, Sr., Rye Town/Harrison
F: Phil Sigona, Sr., White Plains
F: Marshall Rogers, Sr., Rye
D: Kevin Gordon, Sr., Rye
D: Michael Mamone, Jr., Pelham
G: Joe Reagan, Sr., Stepinac
Honorable mention
NIck Alfonzetti, Sr., Brewster; Matt Benincasa, Jr., Rye; Mike Cambria, So., Iona Prep; Mac Clay, Jr., Pelham; A.J. Datino, Sr., Stepinac; Mike DeLaVergne, So., Kennedy/Putnam Valley; Frank Dimaggio, Sr., Yorktown; Stefan DiMario, Sr., Iona Prep; Christian Edge, Sr., John Jay; Andrew Emerson, Jr., Pelham; Rui Encarnacao, Sr., White Plains; Rob Fine, Jr., Mamaronack; Marc Flory, Jr., Pelham; Jordan Gluck, So., Rye Country Day; Alex Hagen, So., Eastchester/Tuckahoe/Bronxville; Kyle Kegan, Sr., Rye Town/Harrison; Chris Latino, Sr., John Jay; Charles MacKenzie, Sr., Fordham Prep; Joe Marasco, Sr., Somers/North Salem; Cody McKinney, Sr., Rye Town/Harrison; Sean McKinney, Sr., Rye Town/Harrison; Rob Molinaro, Jr., Iona Prep; Nick Mucci, Sr., Lakeland/Panas; Robbie Oliverio, Sr., Scarsdale; Eric Perlowitz, Sr., Mount Pleasant; Tyler Perrelle, Jr., Mahopac; Brad Pesce, So., Rye Country Day; Dave Rofosky, Jr., John Jay; Jason Sartorius, Sr., Fox Lane; Matt Seid, Sr., Mamaroneck; Jake Turrin, So., Rye Country Day; Adam Urban, Jr., Rye Town/Harrison; Steven Yankowski, Jr., Stepinac.
The rest of the Rockland first team:
Mike Conklin, Suffern: Conklin was a great two-way player. From the point, his hard slap shots and pinpoint passes led to 31 assists, the second most among Section 1 defensemen. On defense the heady senior always seemed to make the right play, and he was instrumental in breakouts with his passing and skating.
Zac Hiller, Suffern: The Mounties’ first-line center was great on draws and saw the ice well, leading to 44 assists, tied for the most in Section 1. He was especially good on power plays and penalty killing. He has gotten bigger and better every year, a scary prospect for next season’s opponents.
Sean O’Connor, North Rockland: The junior forward led League 3 with 63 points as the Red Raiders won the league championship. He had a goal and three assists in a 4-2 playoff win over League 2 Mount Pleasant, scored the winner in the final seconds over Clarkstown North and earned MVP at the Bethlehem tournament, recording hat tricks in both games.
Andrew Ojeda, Suffern: A second-team all-state defenseman, Ojeda was fast and skilled. The physical senior may have been short in stature, but he may have been the hardest hitter in the section, and he was always tough to beat. He was a big reason the Mounties allowed just 38 goals in 27 games.
Zach Salt, Suffern: The senior was a fast skater who could be counted on to produce every night, either with goals or making a play to set up teammates. A second-team all-state selection, the forward scored in 22 games and led the county with 33 goals and 66 points, the fourth most in Section 1.
Coach, Rob Schelling, Suffern: The Mounties put together the only undefeated regular season in the state and rose to No. 1 in the Division I state rankings. Suffern won the League 1 title and finished the year 24-1-2, beating every area it faced, including Mamaroneck (twice), Rye, Pelham, Iona Prep, White Plains and Monroe-Woodbury.
Second team
F: Matt Ruthberg, Sr., Suffern
F: Russell Santiago, Sr., North Rockland
F: Johnny Hill, Jr., Suffern
D: Craig Meany, Jr., North Rockland
D: Eric Holewinski, Sr., Clarkstown South
G: Chris McIndoe, Jr., Clarkstown North
Honorable mention
Dan Cincotta, Sr., Clarkstown North; Chris Fyfe, Sr., Tappan Zee; Pat Heraghty, Jr., Pearl River; Greg McCarron, Jr., Suffern; Brendan Meyers, So., Clarkstown South; Josh Moelis, Sr., Clarkstown South; Alex Nestle, Jr., North Rockland; Kevin Norwin, So., Suffern; Matthew Rau, Sr., North Rockland; Matt Shore, Sr., Suffern; Brennan Slattery, Jr., Nyack; Nick Spar, Sr., Pearl River; Joe Surace, Jr., Pearl RIver; Steve Williams, Sr., Clarkstown North.
This entry was posted
on Sunday, April 13th, 2008 at 12:39 am by Harold Gutmann.
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Having the Catholic school kids eligible for these teams is a travesty. They should have their own division. 2 Iona Prep kids on the 1st team is a joke. They are both tremendous players but dont play against Section 1 teams every game so you cant judge them accordingly.
To Ridiculous
Your argument is specious. Quality hockey is what they are choosing, not Section 1 players. Look at all the sports that have public and Catholic players chosen. Why don't you ask for an all "zip code" team so you or your son could be chosen first team?
The Catholic league to be fair is weak. outside of Iona and Stepinac its a soft league. They play too many games within the league to be able to play enough tough outside games. They should be separated from Section 1
Obviously it was much easier to make the Rockland News Paper than Westchester.
Rockland has a ton of players from N. rockland, North, South, Nyack, TZ, and Pearl River, but Westchester doesn't have one from Ossining, Sleepy/Irv, or New Rochelle.
Obvious to who?
Based on the comments that N. rocks stats are different than Suffs, it looks like league 3 and 4 are getting the business again.
Keep this in mind
Marasco had 7 points in 4 games against Pelham, A. Step, and Mahopac
Halpin (A Defensemen) managed 9 points in 4 games vs. C. North, Mahopac, WP, and Mt. P
Finally New Ros Prunesti scored 4 goals and 1 assist in one game against higher competition Final four team WP.
All these games except 1 or 2 were competitive, they did not score against the other teams 4th lines.
It seems that when these players got away from the defensive stalwarts in their own league like JFK, scroing came easier
Certainly a down year for the overall Rockland County hockey scene. However, these are "All-County" awards, so the RC all stars will be made up of the 7 rockland high schools.
number nine….number nine….number niiiiinnnneeeeee???
So, what, you would like to see is a blank space, instead of someone you don't think belongs.-LOL
harold your a joke for not even having Encarnaco on 2nd team. hands down one of if not the best playmaker in the section and one of the select few that will be movin onto the next level playing college hockey from this graduating class. unreal. such a tool
I quess he calls-em as he sees-em. What college will he be moving on to?
With the Presidential race tightening, I'm surprised a certain high school sports reporter from the Journal News hasn't yet called random players to ask their input and get a quote for the front page on the current political situations they aren't involved with
Leave Harold alone.. He doesnt pick the team and for the bent out of shape Suffern parent.. he was doing his job. Let it go already…
What is natoli doign next year?
I think the kids picked here are the correct ones, good job harold. As for Natoli i believe he is undecided at this point. I know he has many options and has been invited to tryout for several Jr. A teams as well as a couple of prep schools.
Congratulations to all players selected. Great season. Yes, it was a lot easier to make one of the two Rockland teams than the two West/Put teams, but that is due to the larger population and number of programs east of the river. And there were a lot more honorable mentions for the West/Put team. The local Catholic kids deserve to be included in the discussion. The Journal news covers them along with the Section 1 teams. I just wish the local Catholics would abandon that weak league and play in league 1.
It was a real tough job picking the top 6 forwards in West/Put. Yes, Rui could have been there. But so could have many others. And there were a lot of strong skaters who didn't even get an honorable mention. Kids who will be moving on to prep school next year. Shows you the depth of play east of the river.
I would love to know who these kids are that are going to prep schools next year as well as what prep schools they are going to. There really wasn't anyone good enough to be going off to any REAL prep school to play hockey. Now if they are going for the education that might be a different story, but if they are going to play hockey they are probably going to a really weak school.
The schools I heard mentioned were Cushing, Taft and one other (Berkshire maybe).
The way I see it, outside of Conner and Natoli, there were several players that are really close to filling in the other spots. Its splitting hairs. Regarding the White Plains kid, I think missing (and its a backhand disrespect move) as many varsity games as he did should keep him off first team. He is in that mix for sure, as is some of the forwards on the honorable mention list. Marasco for sure is there too. Keep in mind players on weaker teams, or in weaker divisions of play or kids not on winning teams of course are not going to recognized like that. You had Eck on first team correct, and if Pelham had beaten Rye in the sectional finals he would probably be out and Flory or Emerson might be there. So if your team wins I think you enhance your chances and rightfully so.
moron,
He's an OK player. Who will play for a low level Junior A program and be on the third line. Get Real!
It is interesting that the three first team forwards for West/Put all scored the game winner in their respective championship game (which were all 1 goal games). I think that is why they were on the first team as opposed to the second or HM. Clutch play at key times in HS games sets you apart when determining these honors. There might be "better" skaters, or players with a "better" travel pedigree that didn't get the honors, but as Harold said, the focus of the selection committee was on HS play this season.
fanotgame, great observation on the 1st team fowards. it makes alot more sense now.
update, lower level junior a program? realllyyyyy. new york applecore in the EJhl is lower level junior a hockey. ha! who does your kid play for, lower level junior b new york saints? or aa midget vipers? inform me please
and for questions about natoli,
he tried out for the new york bob cats (AJhl), EJhl is a much better junior A league. he is also looking at northwood.
I am pretty sure he is going to play for the bobcats. From what I heard he was offered a spot.
There is a rumor going around sport 0 rama that McIndoe tore his ACL, will require surgery and will be out of commission until October. He did not tryout for travel hockey. Are his hockey days over? Please confirm.
Rumor has it that Natoli and Reagan will both be on the Junior A New York Bobcats. How is that fair to the rest of the league?
the natoli reagan rumor is not a rumor.. very true. They will split games for the NY Bobcats. Of course anything can change but that is the deal as of now. As far as the Mcindoe thing, i did hear that as well. So i am pretty sure that is the truth also. I wonder if this changes willows and shumans plans. You think CN was bad this year, imagine if mcindoe can't play..
Who are the NY Bobcats. How do they match up against the NY Applecore. THought Applecore was the only A junior Team around? What league do they compete in?
http://www.nybobcats.com/Default.asp?snid=64013892&org=nybobcats.com
Insight for Confused
Ther are 4 local(reasonably local) Tier 3 Jr A programs in the area. Apple Core and the NJ Hitmen play in the eastern junior hockey league (considered the strongest jr league in the NE). The NY Bobcats and the NJ Rockets play in the atlantic junior hockey league.
The strongest program currently is the NJ Hitmen. Doesn't mean they will continue to be next year (although likely). The Bobcats, Apple Core and the Rockets are fairly close. All 4 are great programs and you will find many of the area's best players on one of those teams.
The Bobcats did send a goalie from their team to play for Des Moines of the USHL in the middle of the season. 2 former players in OHL (one was drafted by NJ Devils), 3 former players playing in the EJHL and several current players committed to D3 programs recently.
sec1fan,
Thank you…..But now I'm surprised. Why didn't Natoli or Reagan try for the Hitmen. Or did they and they didn't make it?
The Hitmen's home rink (central Jersey) is a lot closer to Natoli's home while the Bobcats' rink (Syosset- Long Island) might be about the same distance for Reagen as the Hitmen's rink. Maybe the Hitmen already have their goalies set for next year.
Looking at Hitmen roster (they were national runner ups)the two goalies last year were '88 birth year kids from California and Michigan. Does that mean they both have one more year of juniors eligibility?
yes, those goalies do have another year of eligibility.
Yes the 1988 born goalies are allowed 1 more year of eligibilty. Reagan played for the Long Island Royals last year and his team won the jr b national championship. The Bobcats and the Royals are in the same organization so reagan is just moving up to a higher team in the same organization. Natoli and Reagan would be a great pair in this Jr A league i think.
one or both of the Hitmen goalies are returning for another year.
The Bobcats did a really smart thing if they signed Natoli and Regan. Not only are they both competative when it comes to the oppasition, if used as a tandem, they will push each other to be even better.
Rui played Junior A in the EJHL this past year as he was called up from the Empire B team. Does anyone know if he is going to play in the EJHL another year? Or just go to college and play club?
sec1 fan,
Good hockey player but I'm sorry to say that he most likely will end up playing club hockey somewhere down the road. There were a number of players that played this year for Applecore A and who are alot better than Rui and they ended up not even getting into a D3 school.
Sorry to say, but the same thing is going to happen to natoli and reagan.
Great as a goalie is in high school, you can't judge how successful they are or will be in juniors or college.
face facts and true
Very difficult to get to the next level (D1 or D3) for anybody in hockey. It is also a significant accomplishment to get to where these players are going to next year. It is unfair to make assumptions as to their performance before they get there. Can't accurately predict who will rise to the challenge.
The Jr A coaches have chosen them because they feel they can compete at the level. They will now have the chance to prove their metal and set their future. I think we should all be pulling for them as they represent what Section 1 is capable of.
true wrote April 16th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
"Great as a goalie is in high school, you can't judge how successful they are or will be in juniors or college."
You are right. The Junior A team coaches coudn't care less about what a goalie did in high school. They are invited to tryout based on what they did in Junior B. Natoli was the starting MJHL All Star goalie and Reagan won a national championship wit a great Royals team.
Almost every high school team is made up of a few high quality players and several average players who will probably never play hockey after they graduate. Some teams have enough high quality players to just play them the whole game. Then there are the Marascos and Halpins who don't play with anyone at their level so they try to do it themselves and don't get to play their game. Anyway, back on Natoli and Reagan. Natoli (and his defense) are better then pretty much every player they face in high school. That doesn't make his success any less impressive, but when you play against players at your (and your defensmen's) level, it is different. I would love to see them play D1 or for a good D3, and it is possible, but i think it will take two very successful years of juniors for them to have a good chance.
It's not happening! We had "ALOT" of good players that participated in High School hockey that are graduating this year. Maybe one might get lucky and make it to a D3 school this year and play hockey. But the rest will be playing a competitive CLub Hockey somewhere!
And what is so bad about competitive college club hockey? You only practice twice a week and play games on weekends. You still get to play high level hockey, travel with your teammates to other colleges and still have time to enjoy all of what the college experience has to offer. As a NCAA multi sport varsity athlete a few generations ago, I know things have changed dramatically on the NCAA varsity sport front. Some of the current club programs are a lot like what varsity was then and the current DIII varsity teams would all have been competitve with the DI teams from my era. Some of the DIII hockey programs are getting players from Europe, for god's sake. There is no disgrace in club sports, especially club hockey. At the end of the day, it may even be a better alternative than varsity hockey, especially if you are sitting on the varsity bench.
face the facts, you have no idea what you are talking about. Both Natoli and Reagan have an outside shot at a weaker D1 school in a year or 2. AGAIN, an outside shot!! They without question will play D3 if they come up short of D1, and probably could this coming year.
To goalie,
You should take a close look at the level of play in DIII before you claim any player is a lock for DIII spot. Go to Playland and watch a Manhattanville game. They have a bunch of goalies on their team from Europe, Canadian jr A, ect. I love how Natoli and Reagan play, but they would be well behind all the Manhattanville goalies. A few years ago, the Manhattanville coach decided to give one of the local goalies a shot. Two time all state (CT) goalie from Trinity Catholic in Stamford. He was about 5th string and shortly tranferred out to play club at UConn. There is not much of a difference between DIII and DI. Its all very, very difficult to play at. I would love to see one or both of those guys there, though.
goalie,
First of all, I wish these players nothing but best wishes in the future. But I have to agree with fanotgame. Being around hockey for many years and watching many great goalies come and go, it's just not going to happen. When you start throwing in the Swedes, CAnadians etc, and you're competing with a 21-22 year old for that D3 slot the chances are very low to go forward. That's just the way things are these days.
Even in Club hockey, you're now seeing club hockey kids that are now starting at 22 because they could not get into that D1 or D3 hockey programs.
I think goalie is correct, fanotgame and mr. olfactory here are severly underestimating the ability of these 2 and are overestimating the ability of both D3 and weak D1 teams. There is a huge difference between D3 and D1, now, teams like plattsburgh are the exception but in general there is a huge difference. Lets see how they do in Jr. A and we will have a much better idea at how good they are. If they don't shine in Jr. A you will probably be correct, but we will have to wait and see.
Postman,
I would love for you to be right. Believe me, it would be great for some of the better local kids to achieve their dreams and play NCAA varsity hockey, I just think the DIII programs are pretty darn good. Manhattanville had a player who was a healthy scratch for many of his sophomore and junior season games. It took until his senior year to work his way into the regular rotation. This guy is a super hockey player. Way better than anyone playing HS hockey around here. He is now playing on the Red Wings highest minor league team and played for the Red Wings in this past year's pre season NHL games. It is a major accomplishment to make these college varsity teams. Good luck to anyone choosing that challenge.
Postman- Are Natoli and Reagan going to be up at Ice Time May 14 thru 18, or are they letting some of the young guns (Glaser, Delaverne) get a shot at Empires?
I know Natoli IS going to be there, and a kid who just took his spot on the jr. saints, Wakefield, who is very good. I don't know what Reagan is doing, but i would say the young guns have little chance.
I will be there also, so come over and say hello if you are there. Just walk around whispering (ssshhh)"postman, postman"
fanotgame and Smell the Coffee
you guys have a more realistic spin on the collegiate environment.
goalie and postman
easy, nobody is a lock (D3 included) until they get an offer.
The AJHL is a great Jr A league. The only league (prep included)however, that can boast as being the road to collegiate hockey is the USHL (of the US leagues). The AJHL has 11 teams of which there are 41 collegiate commitments (as per their website) involving current players. 7 are D1 (3 of those players played USHL this past season). 34 commitments were for D3 programs.
If there are 11 teams with a 18 man roster each, there are 198 players. Including the USHL players, 4% went D1 and 17% went D3. A combined 21% (1 out of 5) make it to a collegiate level. The percentage increases when you take into account how many will play another year of juniors and then receive their offer. It is very safe to say the majority of the AJHL players will be playing "club" (which is a great way to go) or not at all.
Of the 41 commitments mentioned above, only 3 were goalies. All 3 were to D3 programs. 11 teams, 2 goalies each and 3 D3 commitments. 14% is tough odds, even if you assume the uncommitted goalies will play another year and 3 more will get offers, that only equates to 28%. Throwing around "a lock" is a bit over optimistic.
If there were ever 2 recent goalies from section 1 that would have a shot at collegiate carriers, these 2 would be them. Will be pulling for them to have a great year with the Bobcats. It would be something for section 1 to have 2 senior goaltenders move on to the collegiate ranks.
Little chance for these guys. I agree with the comment above that D3 is much harder than people think. There is way too many people looking for those slots. PLEASE take a look at club rosters, you know what you will see? a trend of high level prep, junior and even USHL players on those rosters. Juniors teams are increasing and college D3 spots are the same. Supply and demand, there are far too many "junior" players looking for a very few spots. Both these goalies are "superior" high school players, but on the global scene and thats who they are competing with for slots, they are way out of it. If you took the international players out of it, maybe, but there is too much competition right now
Postman- Not much of a difference between solid D III and D I. A few years back, Manhattanville hosted the U 17 national team and beat them handily both times. Later in that season that same U 17 National team beat a bunch of D I teams including perrenial national champion contenders North Dakota. The top 1/2 of the NESCAC (Middleburry, Bowdoin, Colby, Trinity, Williams), most of the ECAC (West, North, East), a lot of SUNYAC and some of the western D III teams (St Norberts, St Thomas, ect.) could compete with many D I programs. If you are talking lower level D III schools like Castleton State or Lebanon Valley, for eg, maybe these Section 1 guys have a chance to play varsity. But even a Section 1 stud like all state Chris Wynn had to work hard just to make the Castleton roster. But, how much actual ice did he get? Probably was a healthy scratch many games. There is a Canadian player who is currently skating on the Red Wings highest minor league team. He played in some NHL pre season games this year. He skated his collegiate career at Manhattanville, Was a healthy scratch many times as an underclassmen. Only got in the regular rotation his senior year. D III is very, very high level hockey.
fanotgame,
I agree with you. Have seen slot of goalies come thru the area the last number of years. Remember Moses from Rye County Day. He played for Brewster Junior team made the Empires (I think for three years) and was alot better than Natoli and Reagan…..... disappeared…..DOn't even know if he's still in hockey.
After High School, it's alot different. Almost IMPOSSIBE to get to the next level.
Took a look at Castleton's stats. Looks like Wynnn skated in just 2 games. And he is a really, reallly good hockey player.
Talking about great area goalies, Bobby Leiser (Monroe, section 9), committed to D3 Fitchberg. Here is a case of how tough it is. This kid is great, one of those athletic goalies that steals games. He has played 2 or 3 years of juniors after high school in order to move on collegiately.
Congrats to him on a wonderful accomplishment. He'll have some great years ahead of him.
fanotgame,
tough argument to make saying that D1 and D3 are closely competitive. In some few instances, the top D3 schools will compare to a lower level D1. The U17 comparison is flawed. The D3 schools will play that game to win. The D1's are only playing their sophs and freshmen to a large degree. The D1's have nothing to prove. The D3's are playing against future D1's and definitely have incentive.
Look at the ECHL, AHL and NHL rosters and see how many former D1 players there are in comparison to D3's. Not knocking the D3 level as it is great hockey. Just objecting to the comparison just as I would if someone was saying the D1 club teams are comparable to many of the D3 programs. Good hockey just not as good.
Having watched Manhattanville and Yale play a bunch of times the last few years, I think the Valiants could give the Bulldogs a pretty good game. That is a top 10 DIII team giving an unranked (maybe top 35 or so RPI) D I team a game.
Also, RIT played DIII (ECAC West) for many years. They were above average in the league, but not dominant. A few years ago they moved seamlessly to D I (Atlantic Hockey).
Manhattanville has been a top 5 D3 team last 2 or 3 years. Yale would be very fortunate to be ranked 35 (out of 59)this year which was a pretty good year for them. Even with the ranking disparity, you're only surmising that M'Ville could give Yale a game. Don't disagree with this matchups assessment. Interesting point is that Yale is a non-athletic scholarship D1 school. The fact that this matchup seems as if it would be competitive does not bear enough evidence to state that a solid D3 school is competitive against D1.
To an even greater extent, you're post mentions top 5 Nescac, Most of ECAC east west NE (50% of these leagues would amount to 15 schools), alot of the SUNYAC (5 schools) and atleast 2 western schools. You indicated that 27 D3 schools are comparable to D1. Based on a top 5 D3 school being able to give "Yale" a competitive game?
Bobby Leiser (Monroe, section 9), committed to D3 Fitchberg, How do you rate him against a Natoli or Reagan when he was in High School.
I personally would rate him as good or even better! What do you think?
RIT has done a great job since coming over from D3. They have a winning record playing in Atlantic Hockey. Atlantic Hockey is the least competitive D1 league or the 2nd least competitive league (CHA being the other candidate). The two leagues comprise what would largely be 15 of the bottom 20 D1 programs in the country.
D3 is great hockey but its not D1 and never will be. Every D3 sport can boast that their top teams can beat the weaker D1 teams. The difference is that the stronger D1 teams are far superior to the top D3 and the overall level of competition is consistently superior.
Agree
I don't think there is any basis for comparison. Natoli and Reagan are 3 years younger and have faced entirely different competitors. Natoli and Reagan are bigger goaltenders and have a different style then Leiser. I don't think its fair or even quantifiable to state that Leiser is as good or better.
Leiser has proven that he is a collegiate goaltender. Natoli and/or Reagan now have a chance to match or eclipse Leiser's accomplishment. They each have 2 or 3 years to prove out one way or the other.
I never intended to imply that the DIII teams could compete with the top 25 RPI D I teams. I don't think we are debating whether the Section 1 kids are going to play at those schools. But the good D IIIs can compete with 30 thru 59 D I RPI. By the way, Yale was 30th in the RPI this past season.
OK I'll agree that the top DIII schools can compete with the DI schools ranked 30th or lower. Your post however, didn't mention anything about 30-59 DI rankings: "not much of a difference between solid DIII and DI".
Your post suggests upwards of 27 solid DIII teams. When I say "Top/solid" I mean 10 maybe stretching to 15. I don't think that the 16th thru the 27th ranked DIII teams are going to compete with a D1 program.
OK we all agree that playing in college is a dream for most of the players today. But to give you an idea how competitive Club Hockey is these days, I would suggest that you go to the Davenport University Men's club hockey page. Everyone of thise players listed played at least two years of Junior hockey and ended up playing CLub Hockey for Davenport. They had a few players that graduated this year and they were 24-26 years old.
Now I would have to assume that many of these players were trying for D1 and D3 teams but just couldn't make it. SO they settled for Club Hockey and eventually WON a CLUB Hockey National Championship.
I really think that that will be the norm in the next 2-3 years. Good LUCK to all….
To eye opener,
I agree and disagree with you. Oh, and Davenport isn't even a Division I club team, they are D. 2, they would just be an above average D. 1 club team.
But, yes the competition here is very, very good.
Here is the thing that people aren't getting though. Its NO PRIZE to play NCAA D. 3 over club. I guarantee that the players at Davenport could play for most NCAA D. 3 teams. But after realizing they couldn't play at BU, BC, Maine, etc., they probably felt Davenport was the next best thing. Look at what Davenport offers compared to 90% of the NCAA D. 3 teams. Look at their schedule, 40 games, trips to Florida, Ohio, Michigan, Buffalo. Who wouldn't take this over say your average D. 3 teams like Stonehill, or Cortland, who play less games and never leave Mass, and NY.
ACHA and to some extent fanotgame
Now we're up to Club hockey players guaranteed to be D3 players if they wanted? Players who are turning down DIII offers in favor of club hockey? Not even D1 club but D2 club players are easily at the D3 level? Participants(players, family and friends) at each level level want to compare their level to the level above them. Be proud of the level you're involved in and respect the other levels, below or above.
College hockey is great hockey at all levels. If you can go from a High School level and participate collegiately, you've stepped up. Each level is worthy of respect.
However,
Club D3 is not Club D2. Club D2 is not Club D1. Club D1 is not DIII. DIII is NOT D1.
Fordham University has club hockey and they are horrible. The Junior B Ramapo Saints killed them.
Just a little more on Wynne he made the Castleton State roster as a walk on which was never done by any of this coaches players right out of HS at 18,very big accomplishment according to players and parents on the team .He might not have gotten time but he learned the system and how this level is.
As far as a lower level D3 team Castleton plys some of the top D3 schools in the country ( They beat Norwich at norwich this yr,they lost to Middlebury with 40 sec.left in the game,they also play Bowdoin,Colby and a few Sunyac schools, it be lower level but the are Improving each yr.
( I dont know if you but Joe Hutchko from CN played 2 yrs at Castleton and was their best player).
Another note an Wynne is he is a Goalie on the Castleton Lacrosse team and has logged more time this yr than last yrs starter and has scored a goal while in goal,He has about a 60 pct save pct,not bad being able to play 2 sports in college ,it might not be ND,MICHIGAN,OHIO ST or any of those schools but Ill bet its more than most kids will get to do at the next level.
go to the tape
Ok D3 club might be a stretch calling it a great accomplishment. Almost all of the D3 clubs and D2 clubs are reasonably doable for many of the local Varsity players. D1 club is much more demanding at the top D1 club programs. Even many of the D1 club teams are doable for the local varsity starters. Thats why trying to compare Club to DIII is misguided. The top 25 DIII programs are not easy to make and are very selective.
Great news on Wynne. Time for freshmen in any program is at a premium. Hopefully he will earn a greater role each succeeding year. No need to defend the quality of this DIII program.
Yeah some of the D.3 club teams like the ones around here Fordham, Pace, STAC, New Palz don't even have tryouts, everybody makes the team. Comparing Davenport to Fordham is like comparing Plattsburg to Framingham State. Technically they are both club, and both NCAA D. 3. If these games ever happened the score would be 20 – 0 in both.
This seems to be a NCAA D. 3 vs. D. I club debate.
The only real comparison that can be used is the University of Rhode Island. Because of the geography, they are the only ones who cross leagues. Each year they usually split with the NCAA D. 3s. In 2006-2007, they were the #5 ranked D. I club team. That year they played Norwich in Norwich's own tournament featuring – Norwich, Utica, Umass Dartmouth, and U. of Rhode Island. They lost to Norwich 5-3, and Norwich was also one of the top 5 NCAA D. 3 teams.
I guess you can say it depends on the year. I couldn't see any NCAA D. 3 team beat this years club champs 38 – 0 U. of Illinois, just like I couldn't see any club team beat Middlebury in their years of dominance.
Oh and Castleton is not a low level D. 3 team. They would beat up on teams in the mass league like Framington, Suffolk, + Worcester
No wonder you refer to yourself as ACHA
Why no referene to URI's (Rhode Island) NCAA D3 mathups this year?
URI's final D1 club ranking for the 2007-08 season was an impressive #7. As far as I can find they played 3 NCAA D3 games:
#38 Wesleyan 3 URI 2
#69 Worcester 1 URI 3
#48 UMass-Dart 6 URI 4
NCAA D3 Krach rankings used above.
Worcester is the only team they beat and they were pretty much the weakest division 3 team in the country. Worcester's record was 2 wins and 22 losses. Worcester gave the #7 ranked club team a game. Club #7 URI lost to a D3 #38 and a D3 #48 which is proof enough that Club D1 is not NCAA D3. URI played the D1 club champion and lost 6-2 in Qtr finals of the national championship tournament(not a close game but no blow out).
You can't be serious when you say that no NCAA D3 team would beat the D1 club champion. I'll start with all the NCAA D3 teams ranked in the top 15 and work from there.
To Sec 1 fan
First of all UMASS Dartmouth is ranked the #14 D. 3 team in the nation, I don't know where you got #48 from
Wesleyan beat #13 ranked John Carter's Trinity 3-2, the same score they beat Rhode Island by.
I will agree with you, bad year for wocester, its tough for wocester because they have to play in the shadow of Holy Cross's home rink, or is it Sacred Heart?....Anyway
I will give you this much. The depth at NCAA is greater than the Depth at D. 1 club, as NCAA has been around longer
This years Rhode Island team, was not nearly the team of 06/07. Their 06/07 goalie Anthony Feyock played in the ECHL this year as well as defensemen Derek Douglas who played in the UHL/CHL. This years team was carried by freshman. One of whom is Paul Doran who left Pearl River after his sophmore year to play two years at Canterbury.
Recently learned another one of our kids doing well, Nick Belloise, who scored a hat trick in the finals for Monroe Woodbury the year before they won it all, spent a a year or two at Juco Suny Canton. This year he was a freshman at #14 ranked D. 1 club team West Virginia, and came up with 15 goals in 35 games.
ACHA
My post clearly stated where the rankings came from. Krach rankings are a statistical formula used for D3 and can be easily found on the US College hockey website.
Although I am a fan of D1 club hockey and respect its level of play, I object to someone trying to make bold statements in comparison to NCAA D3. St Norbert/Plattsburgh/Manhattanville etc. are not losing to U of Ill. D1 Club hockey although very competitive is NOT on par with NCAA D3. Its not just about depth, the top D3 teams across the board are superior to any D1 club teams. There are Club players that could have easily competed at the D3 level and for whatever reason are playing club. This is the case with only a limited # of the Club competitors and does not make the level on par with D3.
One other former sec 1 player on the Trinity squad is Justin Letizia (Yorktown).
Well, than we agree to disagree,
I am sure Illinios wont play St. Norberts anytime soon, so we will never know
I found out UM Dartmouth was ranked 14th by going to US college hockey online where there is actually a picture of the Dartmouth goalie on the D. 3 home page saying how they almost made it to the semi's but were eliminated by Trinity, so it must be impossible for them to be ranked as low as #38
copied right off the US College hockey website. click on DIII, get the RANKINGS drop down, click on Krach.
38 Wesleyan 94.75 .4884 52 7-12-3 .3864 0.630 26 147.4
39 St. Mary's 93.84 .4863 48 9-14-2 .4000 0.667 34 138.5
40 Conn. College 91.00 .4797 49t 8-13-2 .3913 0.643 33 138.9
41 Buffalo State 87.53 .4713 39 10-12-4 .4615 0.857 46 101.5
42 Curry 84.70 .4643 30 12-9-1 .5682 1.316 53 65.15
43 Finlandia 79.14 .4498 25 14-9-2 .6000 1.500 55 53.61
44 Cortland 78.52 .4481 38 11-12-3 .4808 0.926 48 84.56
45 Nichols 69.67 .4229 9 14-6-1 .6905 2.231 61 32.51
46 Milw School of Eng 67.96 .4177 37 13-13-0 .5000 1.000 52 67.96
47 Geneseo 64.35 .4064 56 8-17-0 .3200 0.471 38 132.5
48 Mass.-Dartmouth 63.91 .4050 23t 14-9-1 .6042 1.526 59 42.61
Yes we will agree to disagree. I will never accept an argument that a Collegiate Club sport is on par with its Collegiate Varsity counter part DI or DIII. I doubt highly that the ACHA itself would ever entertain such a notion.
I found the Kratch report. It also says this report is in no way affiliated with the NCAA. This was just a dude who posted his own rankings with his own system.
The real NCAA rankings are www.uscho.com/rankings/?type=d3
Thanks for the info though it was interesting to read. Not to wish anyone to do poorly, but its justified to see Lebanon Valley with 1 win this year. They used to recruit 100 kids, tell them they would play, and then have tryouts and cut 80. That worked well for a while. I guess people have figured it out. Just a lesson to the prospective college players, don't believe everything.
Also on the notion that there is no competition between D. 3 and ACHA D. 1. You should go to one of the few games they play each other in. Its ironic, because if they are playing at the Clubs home rink, the fans chant "CLUB HOCKEY!!!!" as a way to get at the D. 3 team, and if they are playing at D. 3's home they also chant "CLUB HOCKEY!!!" as a way to get at the club team.
Ok, the Krach Rankings (not Kratch) are not used by the NCAA selection committee which uses the PairWise comparisons for the selection process. The NCAA however, did see fit to include the Krach rankings as part of their website in the RANKINGS section. The uscho rankings although more "official" are also not used for the NCAA tournament selection process. For the record I think that Umass-Dartmouth is more in line with a top 20 team then where Krach has them ranked.
Funny observation on the dual usage of the "club hockey" chant.
I also hope the D1 Club continues to improve. If the Collegiate Hockey interest continues to increase maybe some of these Club schools will make a move to Varsity status. If they can truly compete with the DIII programs maybe some of them will consider the upgrade. More varsity programs would be great for the game. Its amazing that the # of club hockey players and teams exceed the # of NCAA DI and DIII participants and teams combined.
The reasons these teams don't go D. 1 is mostly Financial.
First they have to deal with the athletic budget, then they need to have both a womens and mens team.
If they get through that, it costs 50 million dollars to enter a league like Hockey East.
It only cost about 2 million to enter the original MAAC league with Fairfield, Iona, Bently, etc. that enticed a few teams, but they were weary (with good reasons) about the health of the league.
They also can't just go D. 3, because if you are a D.1 school, you can't have a D.3 hockey team.
Also, many of the people involved in making the D. 1 club team would be out of a job. I am sure all those coaches involved in the years of dominance at Penn State would be replaced by someone like Joey Mullen or Larry Murphy if they went Hockey East.
Still, I know Penn State, Rhode Island, Illinois, have built their rinks in a matter that is set up for them that eventually they could go D. 1. Delaware would have to knock down a wall and add some more bleachers but they could also do it. When you drive into URI and Delawares campus, the first things you see are the hockey rinks.
Sec1fan
Castleton is not D3 club,its D3 varsity and as an 18 yr old walk on out of HS is a big accomplishment.
BTW D3 club is a joke.
it is funny that so many people on here either think either they or their kid is going into the NHL. I say that because there is always someone to put down every single league that is mentioned, whether its the hudson valley travel league, the MJHL, junior A, b, c, d.. club hockey in college, D3, regular varsity hockey around here, tier 3 this, tier 2 that etc.. etc..Now i support pretty much any kid who is playing and give them credit for playing a game they love, but since there is really only a handful of really good players around here, most of you are really making your kid look bad by writing stuff about a league that they really have zero chance of ever playing in. So if your kid is on the second line of a league 2 team, you really don't have any right to put down anything. You might say D3 club is a joke but 90% of the kids who graduated last year won't have a shot in the world of playing it.