Cost-cutting measures
-
- January
- 29
The NYSPHSAA executive committee is discussing 13 cost-cutting measures at a meeting today-Saturday up in Binghamton.
The biggest one in my opinion, reducing the number of regular-season games from 24 to 20, has already been adopted by Section 1 on its own. But there are some others — supporting a moratorium on the expansion of the state tournament (which means not going to three divisions), using host officials for regionals (state quarterfinals), using centralized sites for the state tournament (which means it stays in Utica), and establishing a maximum of two scrimmages for varsity team and one for modified teams.
You can all 13 proposals by reading my story. The article also points out that new geography-based league alignments passed by a vote of 59-16 (in other words: don’t worry about if Clarkstown North is scheduled to move up to League 1. There will be no more League 1. There will be a Rockland league, a Southern Westchester league, a Northern Westchester/Putnam league, etc. Maybe there will be mini-leagues within those conferences, but there will no longer be a power league with the top eight teams).
I hope to get the new alignments later today. We’re still a long way away from figuring out what the leagues will look like next year, or how teams will qualify for playoffs or be seeded, but I’ll stay on top of it and let you know as soon as I do.
This entry was posted
on Thursday, January 29th, 2009 at 10:20 am by Harold Gutmann. 
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the fact that iona-stepinac is inside (and has absurd playoff implications) on a saturday night and that north-wp is outside at ebersole during on a weekday afternoon, nod definitely goes to ip-step
geography-based leagues will ruin varsity ice hockey…the leagues are too far apart ability wise that next season is going to be a joke with teams beating others by football scores every night
With these new leagues there will be no arguments about whether Section 1 teams are better than 2-3 or 4. Imagine Suffern playing NYACK. Rye playing Irvington. Who would play Pawling? What a mess it seems.
http://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?tid=301136&tclass=Division%201
If you think geographic based is going to ruin Hockey wait to we see the disparity in football games.
The majority of cost savings is only coming in busing and travel as Ice costs are ice costs for the most part….
Cutting 4 games is a savings dollar for dollar but hurts the overall game of Hockey. I believe with might wind up as a huge blow to HS hockey slamming the lid on it and sending everyone back to the Travel world as in Long Island and other area’s. Bottom line its a slippery slope if there is not parody in play. Its already a cadre of different levels.
Our athletic directors have failed us. It is a joke that anyone would vote to get rid of power league for hockey. It will ruin section 1 hockey. You will now see even more kids either not playing high school hockey, or if they do, they will certainly put their travel teams ahead of their high school teams. I also would not be surprised if more kids go to private schools for hockey. I can’t blame them. It took a long long time to get it right. Gone are the dumb days where you can choose which division playoffs you wanted to go in to, where Suffern would basically go uncontested for years in D1. Finally they broke it in to 2 divisions based on school size. Then we got the power league structure in play so that we did not have mismatches like football always has, but now we will have scores like 15-1, 13-0, etc.
For what reason? Shorter bus rides? Teams are going to still have to take buses, how much money is saved if you have to drive an extra 20 minutes.
This will hurt the strong and the weak programs. Stronger teams like Suffern will play Nyack, and Pearl River. Mamaroneck will play Ossining and New Rochelle (sorry guys but you are not in the same league). Weaker programs will not be able to effectively develop weak players when they are playing too strong of a schedule. We saw what happened to ETB last year vs. Mamaroneck. ETB was supposed to be an upcoming powerhouse, and then lose 13-1 to Mamaroneck. And ETB was touted as a ‘GOOD” team. What would Mamk do to teams that lost to ETB?
There will also be SOOOO many more injuries. The strong teams with strong skaters will be plowing over kids who don’t belong on the same ice. Not only will they be humiliated on the scoreboards, they will be humiliated physically and potentially hurt. Look at what Clarks N is doing to league 2 teams… destroying them.
The league rivalries of Mamk Suffern, Suffern Pelham, etc will be eliminated because those games will mean less and less.
It is a lose lose situation. It is a shame… and why?? Just so the bus rides will be shorter and the schools will save a little gas.
d.u.m.b.,
well said
This is a pretty stupid idea. It will drag down the good and bad teams.
Kid from Suffern must be thinking…do I want to play in a Rockland league that features 2 games a year with Clarktown South, a future diminished CNorth, and N/TZ, or go to nearby Don Bosco for better and more meaningful competition.
Kid from N/TZ must be thinking…do I want to play 2 times a year against Suffern and North Rockland, certain blowouts, or go to nearby St. Joes Montvale where I can be on a more competitive balanced team.
..and now it’s only a 20 game season with 8 to 10 potential mismatches.
CHSAA guy…where do I get my Iona Prep application?
al bundy,
that’s gotta be one of the top 3 easiest choices in life to make
current gordon conference
bishop eustace
delbarton
christian brothers
seton hall prep
bergen catholic
don bosco
pope john
st. peter’s prep
st. augustine prep
st. joe’s montvale is currently in 1st in the conference below…about to work their way up and get promoted to gordon conference for next season…st. augustine, st. peter’s and pope john are going to be fighting to see who doesn’t get relegated…
http://www.njhockey.org/2008-09NJStandings.html
al bundy and those interested,
i’m telling you
more of a reason for IP to go non-sanctioned club and just play a power here and a power there (even if they go barely 500 every year)
now if that massive anonymous donation a dozen or so years ago was used to make that rink on campus they were talking about instead of the arts center (decision went down to the wire by the board, was very close, near 55/45 in favor of arts center)...
The only thing that might soften this is if only one league game is required to be played against your geographical league opponent, not two games.
I believe in the Lacrosse leagues thet they only play one league game with each league opponent.
The rest of the schedule would be filled with more even competition.
Of course this would defeat the intent of reducing travel, so JUST KEEP IT THE WAY IT IS.
Okay chsaaguy, I might regret asking this but, what are the other 2 “easiest choices in life to make”?
Which outside team does willows and shuman play for?
rye vs irvington was a bad example but i see your point.
lol
An Arts Center over an Ice Rink?
What the…
Al,
I don’t like the proposal either. But, the reality is that most players will NOT leave for private school. Although they may want to, MOST parents in the area simply can’t afford to pay an extra 10K a year so that their child can play hockey on a more competitive team. Not when they are already paying 10-20K a year in local taxes, most of which is for the school budget which they will not be benefiting from. There are no vouchers for sending your child to private school. And smaller schools like Bosco don’t have near as many resources as the public schools. Just look in their computer labs. Unless you are talking about Fordham which is harder to get into and carries more weight in the college admission process. There are excepions, I realize. Like attending Bosco if you are a baseball or football standout. Just my thoughts.
They play for Colonials Mid-Maj
Mountie..
You are speaking from a Suffern perspective, where they lose practically no one to private school hockey becuase the program is so tradition rich and strong.
However, I’ve become familiar with the rest of the Rockland County teams, and it is alarming how even very ordinary young hockey players plan on attending St. Joes or Don Bosco, or not planning on playing for their public schools due to the general perceived lack of competiveness. Check out a CN or CS modified game, not very attractive.
These kids have been playing travel most of there lives. They or their parents coming out of the youth hockey culture have developed ambitions.
Here is how it affects Suffern. If after too many years of playing in a weak league, the better Suffern kids will get frustrated. Remember a 20 game season could give you 8 to 10 mismatches. Eventually they could look elsewhere for better competition. Knowing how “keeping up with the Jonses works”, kids not quite as good, but who think they are, start to look also.
Hockey parents, after spending 4 to 5 thousand a year on youth hockey, often are very undeterred by the cost of private schools.
I understand your point Al. Well said.
Mountie..
I’m hoping the great Suffern patron and head of sction 1 hockey, John Orlando, could talk some sense into the AD’s.
That might even be to big a task!
Harold, let us know who to write or e-mail to protest against this not-so-bright idea…
I concur with some of the previous statements that this geography-based league is a bad idea. It will be a shame for Suffern to play Nyack/TZ and Pearl River twice each, and vice versa. This would affect players on both sides.
Al – your right, i have seen the CN modified team and they are very weak again this year. Next year, CN Varsity has decent players returning (all the Juniors are the team are solid players), but it will be more-so in two years when we woudl see CN’s talent level will drop greatly.
also – as a CN Fan, i am pretty worried about the ACHA playoffs being the same weekend as the Sectional final (i believe). I thought some blogger said that Willows and Shuman’s travel schedule woudl not conflict with High school hockey?
It is interesting that the modified coach would not advise the board that they need to merge or eliminate their modified program. It has been downhill the past few years. I can’t see spending the money on it. Unfortunately, the coach will play the season if he has just 5 players. He benefits, but this is not the best thing for the program. When the CN modified team played Suffern it was a joke. Coach told the first and second line players to stay home and played the third and fourth lines. The game was still very lopsided. CN’s AD should hold someone accountable. When your program is that bad year after year, you have to ask why? Why keep spending the money. I guess Clarkstown can afford to throw money away.
The first thing players, parents, & fans should realize about administrators is that: YOU DON”T COUNT. Administrators do not care about the quality of the hockey games, the competition amongst players, or the general enjoyment by the fan. It is purely a $$$$ decision. If it saves the school(s) money it will take precedent over anything else. It’s akin to be a politician. When you become an administrator the people no longer count and it’s soley about money and how you/your organization can benefit…done…over…end of story.
Harold was talking as if its already been decided.
Another option is to develop a New Jersey based model. Have one power based league only. New Jersey has its Gordon Conference of top teams. Although the Gordon Conference is just private schools now, it is not limited to privates only. Brick Public High School (where Jim Dowd graduated) was the last public school team in the Gordon. The rest of the New Jersey leagues are geographically based.
In section 1 we could have an “Orlando Conference” of the areas top teams..probably the current league 1 teams, give or take a few. The rest of the teams could go geographic.
This could appeal to the AD’s as it would limit the mismatches and help them beleive that they are also saving travel money.
Numbers on the CN and CS modified teams are not a problem. Their is actually a healthy number of players on both teams, as well as the new Nyack/Tappan Zee modified team.
The AD’s see this as reasons to resist a merger. More kids playing sports is usually a goal for AD’s if wins or losses are not.
The quality of the players is that most do not have any hockey experience. The coaches are hardworking and able, but their is only so much you can do to get a kid ready for quality varsity hockey.
And as I said earlier, the scuttlebut among the few better, more experienced travel/modified players is that private school is in their future. And ther are a few travel kids attending the middle/high schools who don’t even consider the school teams.
I can only speak for myself, when I attended school their was no greater honor than to play a school team sport. I certainly can appreciate when a talent like Matt Willows and Richie Prunestti wants to wear there school team uniforms.
Looks like the better players will be served by playing travel. It is more challenging and they will improve faster. Now if travel can get a blog, News 12 and some fans the parents will have something to crow about.
Only allowing 20 games per team to play is terrible. Most likely they will make it so that teams only play their regional opponents 1 time. Which also makes no sense. So Suffern will play their Rockland foes once, and then bus themselves to westchester, and upstate the rest of the year to play better competition. How is that saving money? It will probably cost Suffern MORE money this way.
Mamaroenck, Pelham and Rye will do the same. All the best schools will play a full 20 games, and travel extensively and spend plenty of $$$ to play better teams. So the league will become a joke, and the weaker teams who do not have good support will probably wind up playing a 8 game league schedule and then attempt to play 12 more games of regional opponents.
Like I said before, in high school hockey, I don’t think you are saving significant money by making the leauges regional.
Right now modified can play 14 games, next year will they be allowed to play 14?
Someone said Sleepy Hollow practices at SOR, and play home games there. Since they are located in Westchester, will they be in the Rockland division or westchester. How funny will that be when Horace Greeeley plays Sleepy Hollow, and they both have to take a bus to the top of Rockland County to play. Kinda illustrates the stupidity of this whole thing when you are trying to save money.
Penny wise and pound foolish!!!!!
I do not like the chshl scheduling set up. I think the realignment puts the public league on a par with the chshl league with a backwards league arrangement. Hopefully it will not pass
I agree that the geography based leagues will produce rediculous mismatches, but will be tame compared to lacrosse. WP has pretty good lacrosse teams that get manhandled by the top teams and can manhandle the worst teams. I can’t imagine the scores when teams like Yorktown or John Jay play the weakest teams. Besides the lopsided scores, kids will get hurt. Protective equipment in lacrosse does not compare to hockey.
Arts center over rink—didn’t they take into consideration Disney on ice?
bigggg gamme sat Iona /Step
fyi here’s the link to NJ ice hockey
http://www.nj.com/forums/hshockey/
Another good new jersey link that illustrates their power team (Gordon Conference) and geographic division alignments.
http://www.njhockey.org/2008-09NJStandings.html
Lets face it most of the AD’s are clueless when it comes to hockey. I believe they made an exception in the new league alignments for football where it would actually save money to have regional leagues. Hockey needs an exception as well – especially since it will not save school districts any money to regionalize the leagues. Parents lets stop complaining to each other on this blog and get out there and let the AD’s, principals, school boards and superintendents know what we think of this – DEMAND answers – ask them how this will save them money! It does not work if it is only 1-2 people – everyone has to be on board for change to happen. Lets put the energy we use to make highsticking the the craziest and most commented blog towards getting what we want and deserve for section 1 hockey.
I think the deal is done, unfortunately. These guys are so shortsighted.
Harold says:
The article also points out that new geography-based league alignments passed by a vote of 59-16 (in other words: don’t worry about if Clarkstown North is scheduled to move up to League 1. There will be no more League 1. There will be a Rockland league, a Southern Westchester league, a Northern Westchester/Putnam league, etc. Maybe there will be mini-leagues within those conferences, but there will no longer be a power league with the top eight teams).
I wonder if they will start reducing the number of High School baseball, lacrosse, and Basketball games.
Do most teams have Parent Associations or Booster clubs?
This would be a natural starting point. The Booster clubs should organize to bring these issues to the attention of the section 1 AD’s collectively.
Okay, now how do we go about and do that?
I agree everyone should call their AD and tell them what they want. Everyone needs to tell their AD to keep hockey the way it is
Lets do this
The CN modified team is not competitive for one reason. There are many capitols players who do not play on the modified team b/c the man that runs that organization and the CN modified coach do not get along. Basically grown adults that act like stubborn children – hence the program suffers. I know the the old coaches tried intervene with little success. Unfortunately the school district and AD could care less so nothing gets done. You have a local travel program that does not want to work with a with the High school to develop local talent. If this ever changes CN will remain a strong program.
Same on the Capitals if this is true. Looking at there Bantam teams record, not good, what possible better situation are they holding out for?
In fairness, the pee wee team record looks respectable.
That is “Shame” not same.
Clarkstown Bantam A team is very weak. If you’re waiting for their talent to come to CN… you’ll be disappointed.
Harold,
Can you interview John Orlando the section 1 chairperson and have him explain what is going on. If he is fighting this, what he plans on doing about this. What he thinks of this etc.?
I like the idea of one power league with the rest geographic. The arena’s could all boost the ticket fee to $5 and use it for the fuel cost.
Let’s see if we can get some email addresses for the following two women and start an email campaign.
The state’s 11 sections will each have two representatives in Binghamton. For Section 1, it will be executive director Jennifer Simmons and Bronxville athletic director Karen Peterson.
If you form a club team That team would not be able to play any teams in the CHSAA or section 1. These teams are only allowed to play sanctioned teams. Someone played a non sanctioned team this year in CHSAA without being aware of it & all schools in league were notified that it is not allowed to happen again. This year in Lacrosse certain schools in LI have 5th year players. No school sanctioned school can play those schools in Metro. Mount Vernon could not play a prep school last year in a tournament & the whole tourney had to be shuffled. NY State Federation is very clear on who HS teams can play & who they cannot.
PetersoK@Bronxville.k12.ny.us
hockey,
not aware of the rules and regulations regarding nonsanctioned club (nysaha)
are you referring to st. mary’s playing iona prep last season?
I’ll let the “Hockey” blogger take that question. I am the lowly “hockey” and don’t know a thing about it.
its a shame that those Capitals players that are CN-bound refuse to play on the CN Modified team. Are they going to Prep School and don’t want anything to do with CN altogether, or are they just not playing for Modified, and when they get to CN high school they will play Varsity?
Jennifer Simmons
So. Westchester BOCES
Dept. of Interscholastic Athletics
2 Westchester Plaza
Elmsford, NY 10523
Phone: 914.592.2526
Fax: 914.592.2940
jsimmons@swboces.org
http://www.swboces.org/Athletics
When I started watching HS hockey again after not seeing any for maybe 17 years, my impression was that it was a lot better than I remembered it being. I think these changes will hurt it. You’ll have fewer experienced players, players that have been playing since grade school and more beginners. It won’t kill it, not by a long shot, but I think it will be a setback to the level of play. Some schools may drop hockey due to lack of interest. The rink shortage is by far the larger obstacle to maintaining and increasing the quantitiy and quality of hockey in the area.
Looks like the CHSHL is going to get more players and become popular. haha
From the article that Harold wrote in today’s paper, it looks like the reduced number of games is not only happening in every sport, but for the spring sports it is going into effect this year.
From what I have heard, it is pretty much a done deal that it will be three conferences next year. You have a Rockland conference with the 6 Rockland teams & SHI, who plays at SOR, the Northern conference which will be the Pawling & the 11 teams that play out of Brewster, and a Southern conference which will be the other 10 teams (Hutch, Ebersole, Hommocks, Playland, WSA). Withing the Northern & Southern conferences, there will be an upper & lower division, so they will kind of be power-based. In Rockland since there will only be 7 teams, you can’t split them in two. Teams will only play everyone once within their league which would leave them with only a handful of league games. I would imagine they would then add cross-over games so give Suffern say 5 cross-over games to round out their league scedule and make those cross-over games against Rye, Mamk, Pelham, etc.
For playoffs, it will be unbelievably difficult to figure out seeding. I have no idea how they could possibly do that without a bunch of people getting ticked off.
Harold, can you publish which AD’s voted for the geography proposal and which didn’t? I am a Suffern modified parent. Like some of the other bloggers said, I am thinking of sending my kid to private school. Our modified team is only playing Rockland teams this year. The games are awful. We are killing every team, and that is even when the coach tells some of his starters to stay home. The only way we will stay is if we can still play Mamaroneck, Pelham, White Plains etc. and if we do that, then the whole point of the ridiculous plan is defeated. and then you also make us drop 4 games and only allow two scrimmages? Horrible job by our ADs. Horrible. Let the injuries and boredom begin.
LoHud Hockey
Under your example above, playing within your conference would include both divisions? If so, what is the advantage of the two divisions? Would playoffs be determined by divisions or the conference league?
The geography based leagues really adversely affect Suffern. Their new “league” opponents, for the most part, simply won’t be able to compete with the Mounties. The rest of the Rockland league will be competitive with each other. Maybe give Suffern a special exemption to play in the Southern Westchester league against its traditional oppponents. Many of the Northern Westchester teams already play each other in leagues, tournamants and non league games. To split those teams into two regional power based leagues will be easy. Southern Westchester might not even need to split up into regional power based leagues. Mamo, Pelham, Rye, WP, RTH, ETB, Scarsdale, New Ro,PWBV and Ossining have all (except Ossining) been in League One or Two in the last few years. And Ossining fans claim their team could compete with League One and Two teams.
The difficulty comes in playoff seeding. A team finishing in the middle of the Southern Westchester league may very be better than the winner of a Suffernless Rockland league or the Northen Westchester league. The NCAA has a committee for such things. Likely means you need to let everyone in the playoffs and have a knowlegeable seeding committee (chaired by LoHud) put the bracket together.
If Suffern got its exemption, here is how the leagues could look (not bad once you consider graduating seniors):
Rockland (6 teams playing at SOR/Mall)- SHI, North Roc, North, South, PR, TZN
Southern Westchester A (6 teams playing in the ring of rinks Playland, Hommocks, Ice Hutch, Ebersole plus SOR- but only once per visiting team at SOR)- Mamo, Suffern, ETB, Rye, WP, Pelham. These teams visiting SOR likely will think this is no big deal as they are the types of teams that will travel upstate for non league matches. And we know Suffern has no problem traveling upstate, much less down 287 for a league game. It also would be the the likely top 5 finishers in League One this year plus up and coming ETB.
Southern Westchester B (5 teams playing at Ice Hutch, Playland and WSA)- Scarsdale, Ossining, New Ro, RTH, PWBV
Northern Westchester A (6 teams all playing out of Brewster)- Pac, Brewster, L/P, Jay, Yorktown, SNS
Northern Westchester B- (6 teams playing excluisvely out of Brewster except Pawling out of TP)- Pawling, Byram Hills, Greeley, Fox Lane, Carmel, KPV
No league bigger than 6 teams, so no more than 10 league games (assuming home and home). Even with a reduction to 20 games, that still leaves at least 10 slots for non league games with either other leagues, CHSHL , local privates or upstate. And even if the Section said Northern A had to play Northern B 1x and Southern A had to play Southern B 1X, that would still leave 4 to 5 games for upstate tourneys.
The energy around this issue is great! Kids really need a balance of academics and athletics. A good coach and program can teach kids some powerful life lessons. I just hope this much energy will come about as teachers and other support staff face lay-offs as districts try to ‘work’ the budget!!! Education is a key the future of our kids!!!
If you want to reduce the number of games… that does in fact save money. But you need to re-align the leagues based on rinks not geography. Why would Rye or RTH go to Brewster for most games…that costs more money and take away local – geographic rivalries. Do it by rinks… or really dont do it at all… the system now works and teams will still have 6 games to spend money on travel anyway… dont vote for this.