Division schedules
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- May
- 31
Sorry I couldn’t get to this until now but I was at a lacrosse tripleheader yesterday. The conferences have met to determine scheduling for next season.
Each conference held a seperate meeting to vote on the procedures they wanted, which is why some are playing each other twice, some are playing each other once, and some are playing each other twice but only counting it once. Remember, the leagues also had different rules last year (Leagues 3/4 crossed over and had 19 league games, while Leagues 1 and 2 didn’t), so it’s not precedent-setting.
Here is the updated setup:
Conferences I and III: Teams will play everyone in their league home and away. There are no mandatory crossovers with other conferences, and no other games will count in the league standings.
Conference II: Teams will play everyone in their league one time. Also no mandatory crossovers.
Conference IV: Teams will play everyone in their league once, and those five games will count toward the league championship. All teams except Suffern will then go through the league again.
Some more tidbits: Teams must have a winning percentage of 25 to qualify, so more schools should make the postseason (based on last year, Clarkstown South, Byram Hills and Nyack/Tappan Zee and possibly Greeley would have qualified instead of missing out). However, it hasn’t yet been determined whether the winning percentage includes all games, league games, division games or some combination.
The other big issue is seeding. Apparently there’s a formula that all sports in Section 1 will be using. I don’t have the details yet, but I know that Section 1 coordinator John Orlando, New Rochelle coach Jim Tozzo, and an AD from each conference will form the seeding committee.
Unfortunately I have to take another furlough (unpaid leave) this quarter, so I will be out from June 1-7. Same rules as last time: no blogging, no e-mails, no phone calls. I look forward to posting more about next season when I return.
This entry was posted
on Sunday, May 31st, 2009 at 5:43 pm by Harold Gutmann. 
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Hang on… who was at each conf meeting? Who were the school representatives? the coaches, the ADs? If nobody knows how the seeding will work but Orlando and Tozzo how do the conf make a schedule and rules without knowing the playoff impact.
For example. Pelham only plays one league game that counts. They now have 6 league games and 14 games to schedule against upstate teams or other top teams. In theory if the seeding is done based on power of schedule they get a higher seed than say Rye.
Rye will have to play 14 games against league 4 schedule. The exception being RTH that had a rough year last year anyway. So now Rye’s schedule power ranking wise and schedule wise is much weaker. Are they an automatic lower seed. It does seem that having different rules for different conf is a recipe for unfair play. Just go back to last years conf and leagues. The economy is bouncing back, nobody is saving money this way, and gas is less expensive.
The fact that only two people know the seeding rules is kind of silly
C’mon-
I think everyone on here is pretty much against the new system, but to now knock the fact that there will be a seeding committee when there really is no other way to determine playoff seeding under the new system is a bit ridiculous, don’t you think? And why does everyone need to know what the committee will factor into their decision? Do you know how the NCAA determines the seeding for March Madness? Or how about the system the BCS uses? I’m sure it will be an objective process, so don’t worry. For example, regardless of the fact that CN played a league 2 schedule this year, ANY committee would have put them ranked 3rd in the D1 tournament behind Mamk & Suffern. The only reason they were seeded 6th was because of the system in place last year.
And to be fair, Harold said he didn’t have the details on the formulas that will be used YET. He didn’t say that they will be kept a huge secret in a locked box that requires Orlando & Tozzo to enter a 10-digit code, provide a thumb-print, a retinal scan, and turn their keys at the same time. It was decided 2 days ago, and the season’s 6 months away. No need to panic.
the entire system from mismatched teams in certain leagues to diffrent rules for each confrence to seeding problems is a complete disaster. hopefully they will bring back the power leagues next year after they see multiple blowouts throughout the year. shame that some good teams will have to deal with lesser competition instead of good high intensity power league games.
I’m a little surprised that each conference has such different # of required games. Conf one teams have 7 mandatory games, leaving 13 to schedule. But the other conferences have far fewer games “to give”.
At the end of the day I’m not sure many teams will have a schedule that looks that different than the previous system.
Looking at Conference one for example: Mahopac will play their 7 required and likely try to fill in with the former L1 and L2 teams and maybe an upstate tournament like last year. Carmel will play their 7 required and likely try to fill in with the former L3 and L4 teams that they have played in the past.
So perhaps much ado about nothing…...unless it gets difficult to schedule teams in the other conferences because of their higher number of required games.
I’m not too worried about seeding process. I was never a fan of the automatic order process that came with the power leagues. And seeding systems work well in all the other sports.
Hope teams playing high level schedules do not get screwed with the seedings. If a team plays hard challenging schedules and loses to top notch teams that should not hurt them in seedings vs. the teams that play weak local schedules
small correction to Harold’s post above. Byram Hills already had the necessary winning percentage for the playoffs last season coming out of league 3. They played Pawling in the first round.
A well informed seeding committee is a good thing. If a team playing a tough schedule loses more and ends up being seeded lower than a team playing an easier schedule, at least that lower seeded team has the team growing benefit of a tougher schedule. Remember last season when Pelham lost to Queeensbury at home in late December , but battled thru a tough League One and non league schedule the next few months before easily handling Queensbury in their rink at the the state regionals? I would take the tougher schedule and risk the losses any day. Since the finals are at West Point and it should be pretty easy to seed the top 4 teams in each of DI and DII, what we are really talking about is who hosts the semi final matches.
I think that Conference I and III’s decision to play home and home within league makes the seeding committee’s job a lot tougher, though. With 11 of the 14 DII teams in those two conferences, and with those conferences mandating all those league games, there won’t be enough room on the schedule for crossovers like Pelham vs. Rye, Somers vs. Ossining, Sleepy vs. Brewster. Pearl River is the only DII team with ample room on its non league schedule for Sleepy and Pelham’s relatively open non league schedules. Not sure that is a matchup Witz will seek out.
fanotgame, you make a good point about the seeding committee’s job being tough, but I don’t think it will be as bad with the clogged up schedules. Historically, the only D2 teams from the section that are looking outside of section 1 to fill up their non-league schedule (not counting games against local non-section1 teams like Iona, Harvey, Newburgh, etc.) are Rye & Pelham. So even with only 6-8 open slots on their schedules, most of the teams in conference 2 & 3 will be trying to schedule each other (as well as the teams in conference 1 & 4) in their non-league games. It’ll phase Rye because they’re only going to have 6 games with which to schedule outside competition and they are going to want to get some upstate competition meaning possibly no local crossovers. I don’t think that’ll make the seeding committee’s job much more difficult though, since I suspect they will be seeded at the top along with Pelham as usual and the 1-2 seeds don’t mean all that much now with the finals at West Point.
Lohud- probably the one good thing that comes out of this restructure is a more accurate seeding process. That seeding process is in good hands with the two named individuals. While the power league system is great for level of play during the regular season, when it misses the proper league for a team (arguably North, Jay, RTH and Ossining last season), it can wreak havoc on the early round match ups. It usually does not affect the semis or finals, as the better teams find their way there, regardless of seeding.
What I have a hard time with is how can the two larger Conferences be the ones that mandate playing twice within Conference, while the two smaller conferences only mandated one league game with a conference opponent. If anything, it should be the other way around. Done the way it was, it really limits the ability of an accomplished Conference One or Conference Three team from really testing itself during the regular season. It gives the better Conference Two and Conference Four teams an advantage over the better Conference One and Conference Three teams, by allowing Conference Two and Four teams relative free reign in schedulimg regular season games while at the same time severely restricting the scheduling options for the teams from the other two Conferences. It surprises me that this was allowed.
C’mon,
Based upon what Harold reported, isn’t your Pelham statement inaccurate? You said “Pelham only plays one league game that counts. They now have 6 league games and 14 games to schedule against upstate teams or other top teams.
They are in a Conference that plays a Home and Home (12 games)leaving them with 8 to schedule. Even if they were in a Conference that only counted on of the games towards their Conference record, they still would have played 12 games and still be limited to 8 more games to make 20 games.
Correction to last post –
C’mon,
Based upon what Harold reported, isn’t your Pelham statement inaccurate? You said “Pelham only plays one league game that counts. They now have 6 league games and 14 games to schedule against upstate teams or other top teams.”
They are in a Conference that plays a Home and Home (12 games)leaving them with 8 to schedule. Even if they were in a Conference that only counted ONE of the games towards their Conference record, they still would have played 12 games and still be limited to 8 more games to make 20 games.
Sorry, I got two and three mixed up. So, the teams most interested in having scheduling flexibility have the following mandatory games:
Rye-14
Mamo- 12
Pelham-12
Suffern-5
Correstion
Conference 1 and 3 will play a double round robin.
Conference 2 will play a single round
Conference 4 is correct as stated.
Jim Tozzo and I do not know the exact seeding procedures. The AD from each Conference, Jim and I will be in on the seeding meeting where the exact rules[ that will apply to all sports will be followed.
Pelham and Mamaroneck only have 6 mandator games. They will probably look to get their normal rivals on the schedule as cross overs and schedule upstate tournaments. I actually admire what Pelham Mamaroneck Rye and Suffern has done each season with their schedules. Pelham is losing a whole lot but their schedule will probably be one of the toughest in the state
Which is why pelham is going to get absoulutly smoke-showed this year.
john orlando,
when you say correction are you responding to the post by confrence II corection or are you stating a correction to the plans for the confrences listed by Harold in the original article?
to ?
BOTH
Conference 1 and 3 have 14 league games
Conference 2 has 6 league games
Conference 4 has 5 league games
all conferences have the option of getting crossovers which will not count towards a league championship.
Conference 4 [Rockland ] will play a double round robin,except Suffern,but only the first game is the league game [5 games]
So how is this new arrangement going to save teams like Suffern, Mamaroneck and Pelham money?
Thanks to Coach Orlando for the correction / clarification.
But the original point still holds. Teams in Conference 1 and 3 will have only 6 games to give, while the teams in the other conferences will be looking for lots of games to fill in.
I’m wondering what the logic was behind the unbalanced approach? I can’t think of any other sport in Section 1 that does this.
Conference One-
It came out unbalanced because it was up to each conference how they wanted to handle their league games.
As for any other sport in Section 1 that does this, off the top of my head, I can think of one right away. Hockey. Look at last year’s set-up. Leagues 1 & 2 each played everyone in their league twice. Leagues 3 and 4 each played everyone in their own league twice and everyone in the other league once. Teams in League 1 had 14 league games. Teams in League 2 had 12 league games. Teams in Leagues 3 & 4 each had 19 league games. This is not a new concept.
So, top playoff contenders like Mahopac and L/P in Conference One and Rye in Conference Three are at the mercy of the ADs from their new Conference foes regarding how they can fashion a regular season schedule? Perennial deep in playoff teams like Rye and Mahopac and up and coming L/P are limited to 6 non conference games while rivals Pelham, Mamaroneck and White Plains not only get to play each other once in Conference Two, but get an added benefit of playing 14 non conference games of their choosing and Suffern gets 15 non conference games to work with. Can someone tell me how this is a level playing field for those teams likely to meet in late playoff rounds?
Lohud- I understand your point about how historically different leagues have had different approaches to what constitutes a league game. But, for Leagues One and Two where the DI and DII semi finalists regularly cone from, everyone played each other twice. And a team could, over time, perform its way into that favorable League One and Two schedule. That option is not available in the new geography based conferences.
My understanding was that the crossovers for old Leagues Three and Four were put in place to assure that some of the less established programs could more easily fill out a schedule. My guess is that since Conferences One and Three have a bunch of those less established programs, those ADs voted for the home and home within conference to more easily fill out a schedule. Conference Two with its more established programs had ADs who opted for more flexibility. And the Conference Four ADs were happy to have their teams avoid a second game with state power Suffern.
In Conferences One and Three, you could achieve the same schedule filling result (with a more even level of play) by having the lower rated Conference One and Conference Three teams (that all seem to play home games at Brewster rink anyway) play crossover games (that are required but don’t count for conference standings-like the second time thru for the non Suffern teams in Conference Four) and let the higher rated Conference One and Three teams schedule competitive games with teams like Mamo, Suffern, WP, Pelham, upstate, ect. Then everyone would be happy with the new system.
Right now, you have a few top teams struggling to put together a competitive schedule and a few less established teams that will be mismatched for two games againt a particular conference foe or two. The fix is easy and saves money. Rye can play next door versus Mamo, WP and Pelham while the Brewster rink (home rink to all of the following teams) can host games among Fox Lane, Greeley, and Byram Hills from Conference Three and KPV, Carmel and Yorktown from Conference One. Other stronger Brewster rink teams like Mahopac and L/P from Conference One can play a solid Conference Three Brewster rink team like SNS. I think those matches occurred last season. I am sure Rye would rather go up to Brewster rink to play Mahopac and L/P than Fox Lane and Greeley a second time.
LoHud – very cute reply, but you are usually better than that. And you’ve proven the point. No other sport does this.
I guess the question is why was each conference allowed to roll their own?
I simply don’t understand why any of the conferences would require 2 league games each.
This mandate really eliminates the flexability of your schedule.
I could only think that the AD’s who voted on 2 games were championing the idea that this new alignment should be used to save travel costs. I would like to hear at least from one supporter of the 2 game requirement and there reason for supporting it.
Just speculation here, but how about this as food for thought. The same AD’s who were not willing to fight to keep hockey from being forced into this silly new structure that anyone who follows the sport knows is pretty ridiculous are the ones who agreed to the double-round robin. This way they wouldn’t have to expend the energy to go out and book 15 games. They are given their home ice slots from their home rink, they supply the league with those slots, then the league churns out a 14-game schedule for them and their job is done. If they were playing a single league game, they now have to pound the phones to find opponents for 13 games and figure out who’s available on what dates. It basically makes their jobs easier to do the double round-robin much like their jobs were made easier by backing off from fighting the new conferences. Now they only have 6 slots to fill and there will be other local teams scrambling to fill 15 games, so they can sit back and wait for the phone to ring.
Just take a look at the two conferences that went to one game as opposed to the ones who went to two and compare the programs & coaches in each. The teams in conference 2 & 4 are the ones where (for the most part) the coaches have been in those programs for a long time and handle a lot of the scheduling, while the teams in Conference 1 & 3, the AD’s do most of the work in that department. Out of 29 coaches in Section 1, the 10 most tenured come from the 13 teams that comprise the two conferences that got it right. What does that tell you?
It tells you that it is unfair for those ADs to dictate how teams like Mahopac, Lakeland/Panas and Rye can schedule non conference games. There is no way for these top teams to work their way out of the conference, since we are now gegraphy and not power based. These more focused teams are “stuck” with the approach of those ADs. The Section should override this inequity.
I guess those stronger, higher achieving teams could resort to putting the hammer down real hard on the bottom of the conference in an effort to convince the ADs from those teams to relent and vote for a one game conference schedule. But, do we really want to go thru that process?
Without question that is very accurate. The AD`s who were in favor of going away from the power league setup and going by conference are the same AD`s shutting down the schedules by forcing a double round robin in conference. Those AD`s are the types that maybe wish hockey would go away, and take the easy way out. Double round robin eats up much of the schedule and thats that for the AD`s dealings with it. The scheduler does all the AD`s work, no looking for ice or opponents. Those coaches/parents should call their AD if they do not like the double round robin, but don`t hate the AD`s and coaches who did it right
Section one makes a decision to go to geography based conferences for all sports except football. This decision has been made. It’s clear that playing 14 of 20 games inside that geographic conference would be in keeping with the spirit of that decision. What I still don’t get is why did the Section allow each conference to make it’s own rules??
Correction and hopefully this will be the last one.
The athletic directors of Conference 3 voted to play a double round robin but only the first game will count as a league game. Teams may choose to drop the second game if it is mutually agreed to by both teams.
Well, I guess that makes sense in our new bizarro world. 4 conferences, 4 different models for league play and scheduling.
So be it and let the games begin.
I appreciate Coach Orlando’s willingness to communicate with the high school hockey fans and I’m glad to see conference 3 being more flexible with their scheduling.
I don’t know what goes through the minds of all AD’s, but I’ll presume that most are pro-Athletics, that most have histories in the the more traditional sports of football, basketball and baseball, and that they are not anti-hockey, but probably they are not as close to the game as we’d favor. And this is for the AD’s who have hockey programs at schools.
Hopefully the AD’s for conference 1 will come away from the 2 game round robin mandate.
Without good quality Travel Hockey teaching the game from the ice on up HS hockey would begin to look like Intramural sports. The youth programs have developed talent and skill to allow these HS programs to play the game as it should be played. I believe this new alignments softens the quality of the game and forces the best talented players to search for more productive hockey options. This further compounds the problem. 7- 10 years from now we may see what has gone on in the Long Island Schools where by the programs become Club or intramural programs. Except for Catholic Programs on Long Island most players capable of playing high level hockey don’t bother to show up for HS Tryouts… In essence what has occured here will not bode well for our sport in the HS environment. I believe the Junior programs will see an influx of kids on the fence over time as players and parents are not stupid.
to Not South of the Canadian Border- I think that the flexibility shown by the ADs in Conferences Two, Four and now with Mr Orlando’s latest clarification, possibly Conference Three, most Section One HS hockey coaches will be able to put together competitive schedules. Last season in Section One was a very good year. I expect the trend to continue.
I still think it is unfair for the ADs in Conference One (and maybe Conference Three) to force a second game on a team that would otherwise prefer to use that slot for a different opponent. There are now only 20 games in the regular season. If both teams want the second game, fine. But if one does not, don’t make it mandatory.
To fanot
What went on in section one was great for the game as the parody and talent lent itself for growth. Fast forward a few years of runnaway sections, mismatch games with scores 10-1 and you have the recipe for what has occured on Long Island.
As a coach and a parent I can tell you the amount of time put in developing players in youth hockey will bring parents and players to a decision in the future.
When parents feel that Johhny is not exposed to quality hockey they will opt out. When enough do it will turn these games into nothing more than Intramural. The talented players will play elsewhere. I hope it does not happen but I think the AD’s and the coaches will have to work even harder to make the programs and the games productive. Knowing the system I believe we have seen our best days as this might not solve the economic reason it was created for and it might not provide a competitive hockey environment.
Sorry to beat this into the ground but leagues must be created by talent,ability and talent level not by geography.
My guess is that we will return to the power based leagues sooner than you think. While in the purgatory that are the geography based conferences, at least most ADs understand the need for scheduling flexibility for the better teams. Those better teams need the space on the schedule to strut Section One’s stuff upstate. That is how the Section gets its top teams recognised in the state rankings and how the Section champs improve during the season to compete deep in the state playoffs. I hope the Conference One ADs follow the others.
Long Island public high school club hockey is not as weak as you make it out to sound. It has been around a long time and is very well organized.
It’s flexible in that if your school does not have a team you can petition to play for another school club (sounds like all our merged section 1 schools). Rules are also in place that if you are cut from your high school club team, you can petition to play for another club. Now I don’t know how often that occurs, but think of all those non-playing Suffern kids making NTZ a stronger team!
Their is also a club state championship system.
I’m not sure of its relative strength but I’d guess that many LI public school club teams are on par with our league 2, 3, and 4 teams. Certainly league 3 and 4.
Of course the big drawback is that it is not funded by the schools and is paid by the families.
So Pelham can expect to play their 6 league games, Mamaroneck, ETB, SH/I, New Ro, Scarsdale and White Plains. Pelham might play an extra game against Mamo and White Plains. Then home and aways against Rye and Suffern. And then one game against Mahopac and John Jay. Get in 3 upstate tourneys. Thats 20 good games right there.
Instead of RTH twice, Pelham plays SH/I and New Ro. Instead of a second game against Mahopac and Jay they play ETB and Scarsdale. Other than that, Pelham would play Pac and Jay once less, and then miss out on a section II game, along with one more crossover, like clarkstown north this past year.
Pelham,
I agree that as long as the ADs in Conference One and Three require the top teams to only play once in conference (a possibility for Conference Three, but not yet the case for Conference One), there will be enough flexibility for the type of schedule you propose to occur. For the Section’s top teams, it starts to look a lot like last year’s schedule, which is a good thing.
Fanotgame,
How about this schedule for your Rye team:
A game against each Conference 3 team – 7 games
A home & away against White Plains, Mamaroneck, Pelham, Suffern – 8 Games
Leaving Rye with 5 games – 2 games for the annual Rome Christmas tournament, 2 games for another upstate tournament and 1 leftover game to play with.
I understand that pelham will play the 6 mandatory league games Suffern twice Mamaroneck a second time probably get a home and home with Rye and maybe Mahopac? that gives them 12 plus they will go on the three upstate tournament trips to Queensbury Massena and Albany. I also heard Pelham and Rye are bringing down Whitesboro and another section 3 team So that would give Pelham their 20 games. That looks to me like if thats Pelhams correct schedule then they did quite well. They lost teams like Jay Rye Town teams they never lose to and picked up the normal tough teams they used to play
Pelham and Rye schedule-the other Section 3 team that might join Whitesboro is Cortlandt. The last two seasons, Rye and Mamo played those two Section 3 teams over MLK weekend. Last season the Garnets and Tigers went up there and the season before the Section 3 teams came to the jungle. It is Section 3s turn to come down. Last season the Cortlandt parents told me they would rather come down and play us and another DII team. I think Mamo was just starting to get on a major roll at that point and was a bit much for them.
Rye usually does the Rome Free Academy tourney in December. I heard Rye may also schedule Section Two DII frontrunners (and possible state regional opponents) Queensbury and Glenns Falls.
LoHud.. your comment about successful programs and coaches is a pretty distasteful statement. A) It makes it sound like the older coaches may have a had a “bit” to do with the scheduling and conf (Is that why Rye is now in Brewster circuit. I would argue that all coaches work hard for their team and their schedules. You have some fairly accomplished coaches that you just painted with a bad brush. I am sure the Rye coach appreciates it.
Get off the soap box-
For starters, I never said anything about successful coaches & programs, I was talking about long-tenured coaches, pointing out that aside from Kevin Connolly in Ossining, I believe at least the 10 most tenured coaches all come from Conferences 1 & 3. Generally when someone has been coaching a team for a while, they take over the responsibilities (or at least the bulk of them) from the AD. When it comes to scheduling games, rescheduling games, etc., you never hear from AD’s at places like NewRo, Mamk, or Suffern, you hear from Tozzo, Chiaparelli, or Schelling. When it comes to programs where the coaches haven’t been there for as long, you generally hear from the AD’s on matters like that.
This has nothing to do with success, it has to do with longevity in a job. Remember, some of the more tenured coaches are in programs that do not have the history of being at the top of the section year over year like Mamk, Suffern, & Pelham. On that list of most tenured coaches, you also have the likes Ossining, NewRo, North Rockland, Pearl River, Scarsdale, & WP each of whom have had many ups & downs over the years.
This is not a knock on any team, coach, AD, or program. It’s just basic business. When you have someone working for you for a long time, you give them more reponsibilities so you can focus on other things.
Lastly, I never said that was definitely why this happened, I was just offering up an idea as to why the AD’s may have voted this way.
He did not say “successful” coaches. Rather “long tenured” coaches.
I for one would argue about the “succesful” coaches in Rockland County or Conference 4, with of course the notable exception of the Suffern coach.
I would agree that most of the Rockland coaches are “long tenured”, and perhaps some are to long tenured….
the whole realignment is beyond stupid. Teams will now spend MORE money than last year. Great work section 1.
Where is everyone going next year, the elite group of this years players, either academically or in pursuit of playing hockey lets get a list going. Just add in who you know.
Pelham (sec1fan you can fill this in)
Flory
Mamone
Emerson
Rivera
Rye (fanotgame)
Talgo
Sganga
benincasa
Mamo
Jackson-
Hagen-ST. Johns
Glaser
Zweig
Chapman
Fine
Suffern
Hiller-
Add players and team as is necessary
Guy in the stands,
I’m interested where these players are going to college also, But other than Flory, I think their Hockey careers are over! They will lucky to make a club team!
HockeyFan,
I agree with you that those players will probaby not make it in NCAA college hockey either and to be honest I don’t think Flory will either. They are all great high school hockey players but college is a different level. It is just too hard to make it in college hockey unless you are willing to take at least a year off to play juniors and even then nothing is garunteed.
I think Hiller is better than Flory and has a better chance to pursue Hockey. Reality is I dont think they are going to try, I am not positive but just judging on what I have heard. Does anyone know where they are enrolling
None of those players are going to play next year.
Jackson is playing Juniors B at brewster. Do not know what school is going to attend.
Jackson will not be attending any school
HIller is a great kid and player, but he is not better than Flory. Flory has size speed strength and a real scoring touch. Flory also performs in crunch time
hiller vs Flory,
I agree that Flory is a more dominant High School hockey player, but Hiller is more effective at the higher level. Big players like Flory can use size to dominate in High School hockey but a player like Hiller really plays to his ability when he plays with talented players at the higher level. The perfect example is Hiller leading the Hudson Valley team in scoring in the Empire State games.
It’s hard to say that Hiller is more effective in a travel style, Flory was putting up good numbers when he was the same size as the competition, in 9th and 10th grade. In 9th grade when he was 3 years younger than everyone he scored in every playoff game. Flory has touch around the net that has nothing to do with his size. Flory played like a smaller player this year, with less driving wide and then attacking the post, and it worked out for him. Hiller is a solid player, and he has a good skill set, but to say he is better than Flory isn’t true.
Guy in the stands. I have heard the following: Benincasa going to Lafayette, where he has met with the club team. Talgo going to Lehigh which has a nationally ranked DI club team. With a summer of hard work he could compete for a spot on that team. Sganga going to Ithaca College which also has club hockey.
Lehigh was 2-18 last year…...Definitely not a nationally ranked team in Division 1 club hockey.
Why would Jackson even bother. Unless he’s playing Junior A somewhere (in Boston or Midwest), he’s just wasting his time.
To Confused- Looks like they had a rough season this past year. A few seasons back Lehigh was invited to the D I Club National Championships. The school used to have, and may still have, an A and a B team at the club level. That alone leads me to believe the top club team plays a pretty good schedule.
Mistake
why is jackson wasting his time playing at brewster?
I may not be sec1 fan, but I can answer the Pelham question.
Flory- RPI, with that kid’s work ethic, attitude, natural talent, and with the amount of skating he will be doing reffing, he will be on the team in 3 years. Yup, thats right, the show, d-1.
Emerson is attending Middlebury
Hernandez is attending Sacred Heart
Mamone is going to STAQ.
Lambdin is going to Miami, Ohio.
Harms-Berkshire
Dzenis- Northwood
And my predecessor, sec1 fan, will be attending Bucknell University.
Go Pelham
I check now and again to see any discussion on the ACHA.
I am 95% sure Lehigh was never to a national tournament.
I am a big fan of Lehigh, they have always played the best of the bestof D. 1 club , if they played in the Suny D. 1 club division (Binghamton, Cortland, Oswego, etc.) they would probably be undefeated.
You have to be an outstanding HS player to sniff the ice at Lehigh. What saves Lehigh is its a great school that prep school players are attracted to, so you always see 2 or 3 great players from Avon, Hotchkiss, Bershire, etc. on the team.
I would surely give any player wanting to attend Lehigh my blessing.
Rye will be strong next year especially if the goalie coming back from prep is as good as people say. The experience the Garnets have will be crucial and they have depth. They will miss some key pieces but have enough to win d 2
Pelham lost a lot. Returning only a few goals is going to be challenging. The team has always had the best work ethic of any team in the section year in and year out so nobody can count them out. Pelham will play the youngsters and have the youth prepared and tested. May be a close race in d 2 especially if Pelham does as it always has done.
look for Rye and Pelham at West Point again
To ACHA- Take a look at the club sports section on the Lehigh website. Then click Ice Hockey A team. They mention that Lehigh was invited to a national showcase for the top 16 club teams in the nation. I thought that was a reference to nationals. I could be wrong, though.
Lehigh had a rough 08=09, so what, any kid playing Club Hockey is having fun and enjoying their sport, regardless of where they go, what league they play in.
Goalline Sports Administration Software
Game Results
(M2) Temple University 4 @ (M1) Lehigh University 5 Sep 19, 2008Details
(M1) Villanova University 7 @ (M1) Lehigh University 4 Sep 21, 2008Details
(M1) Lehigh University 2 @ (M1) Drexel University 3 Sep 27, 2008Details
(M1) Lehigh University 0 @ (M1) West Chester University 10 Oct 03, 2008Details
(M1) Niagara University 3 @ (M1) Lehigh University 2 Oct 05, 2008Details
(M1) Drexel University 6 @ (M1) Lehigh University 2 Oct 11, 2008Details
(M1) Lehigh University 2 @ (M1) Naval Academy, United States 3 Oct 17, 2008Details
(M1) Lehigh University 6 @ (M1) Naval Academy, United States 4 Oct 18, 2008Details
(M1) Lehigh University 8 @ (M1) Scranton, University of 10 Oct 25, 2008Details
(M1) Lehigh University 3 @ (M1) Towson University 4 Oct 31, 2008Details
(M1) Lehigh University 2 @ (M1) Stony Brook University 5 Nov 01, 2008Details
(M1) Villanova University 3 @ (M1) Lehigh University 2 Nov 08, 2008Details
(M1) Lehigh University 2 @ (M1) Rutgers University 6 Jan 16, 2009Details
(M1) West Chester University 11 @ (M1) Lehigh University 1 Jan 17, 2009Details
(M1) Lehigh University 4 @ (M1) Villanova University 6 Jan 23, 2009Details
(M1) Lehigh University 0 @ (M1) Maryland, University of 7 Jan 31, 2009Details
(M1) Lehigh University 4 @ (M1) John Carroll University 6 Feb 06, 2009Details
(M1) Lehigh University 2 @ (M1) Kent State University 11 Feb 07, 2009Details
(M1) Lehigh University 5 @ (M1) Binghamton University 6 Feb 13, 2009Details
(M1) Lehigh University 3 @ (M1) Villanova University 5 Mar 06, 2009Details
Nueve-Uno-Cuatro,
SO I guess all the kids from Pelham are finished with Hockey also. Because none of those players are good enough to play at their respective schools.
Mamone and Hernandez at the club level, Emerson is a golfer, Flory at the club level. For Harms and Dzenis, those are prep schools.
Pelham kids will play club which is great as many of the top high school kids in recent memory have done it and had a great time. The last group of Pelham seniors have a lifetime of memories after the season they had this year and the careers they have had so things are not that bad I am sure
That last post in which the Lehigh stats are given was not me.
But looking at those stats, wow!! they really did have a rough year, I can’t believe they lost to Binghamton, while they are both classified as D.1 club, the ECHA league Lehigh plays in is far superior to the Suny club league Binghamton is in.
And like I said, I am a big fan of Lehigh, but I read the story on their site, and I don’t ever remember them going to the 16 team national tournament even though their site says they were invited, they did have a decent year about 3 years ago, so maybe they made it as the 15th or 16th team, I don’t know. But, the site is misleading, anyone reading that site that tells how Lehigh is D. club powerhouse will be dissapointed upon seeing the team.
And “imitation ACHA”. you describe club hockey as having fun, but the level Lehigh plays is much more serious than that, you make it sound like an intramural team, this is serious big time hockey, believe me, to the players in this league, “club” is a four letter word.
Flory Could walk on to RPI teams as they are not the top contenders in Div 1 Hockey. He probably won’t wet his skates till Junior year as his competition in DIV 1 NCAA is already 2-3 years older bigger and faster.
Hernan not even a club player not enough speed or ability.
Mamone probably a decent club player.
Lamdin a backup club goaltender.
Harms and Dzenis average club players might even get cut.
The talent is much better once you leave Pelham…..
Mean average Prep players!
Kudos to South Orangeton Schools (TZ High School) Superintendent and former Nyack Hockey coach Ken Mitchell for disarming an angry gun toting parent at the South Orangetown middle school.
Read this interesting side story regarding this man’s character and Nyack’s 22-0 defeat in the NYS hockey finals sometime in the 1980’s.
http://www.lohud.com/article/20090610/NEWS03/906100363/1019
Flory will be a strong club player like others who have been top area players and have gone onto club.
Mamone will be fine in club hockey. He is a grinder and will succeed based on his work ethic
Harms and Dzenis were probably the two top defenders in high school in this area. Finding solid defenders at any level of play is difficult. These two had an awesome season and will be fine, and I am not a Pelham fan in the least. Pelham won a lot of games this season against the best teams in the area. The games they lost were to some of the best teams in the state and they were in every game. There is a reason why that happened and these players you are criticizing are a large part of the teams success
Bad-
If you can examine most post a bit more carefully you will note I am responding to someone who listed Flory as someone who may play Division 1 NCAA Hockey as a Walk on Try out.
Flory would be a star on any ACHA Club team as far as NCAA he will be younger smaller as he is playing agains men 2-3 years older than he many with real Canadian Junior experiences. That said I believe Flory would develop and play if he could stick it out.
Harms and Dzenis would be average in Prep School Hockey. Not to say that those years and a PG year would not allow them the time and experience to be sucessful. However they both could get cut depending on their ability to adapt to a much faster and biger game. I am not knocking any of those kids they are all good players. HS Hockey in our area is not being played at the speed of even a decent Junior B Game. Not to say that many of the top kids can’t adapt over and gain the experience. Right now the jury is out. There are many kids riding NCAA Division I and Division III Benches that are far faster, bigger and talented than any of these young men. This is a plain fact they are all very big fish in a very small pond. Once they get to the bigger faster game is the only way to tell if they are going to rise higher or not.
Al-
It’s great that they put that in there, but the only time Nyack was in the state championship game was in 1982 and they lost 9-0 in the finals to St. Lawrence. So they either have the score wrong (maybe the guy was exaggerating when talking to the reporter and the reporter noted it as fact) or maybe it was a different year and it wasn’t a state championship game (maybe the semis or a section championship game).
Lohud,
Thanks for the correction. Your words on this is as good as gold…I’ll accept that it could’ve been “mis-remembering” of a regional or quarter-final contest of some 20 plus years ago. Although 9-0 isn’t all that great either!
Kudos to Mr.Mitchell. He is a true hero, and seems like a very honorable man. Give him a medal of honor!
I think Flory was the top player around here this year. But I can honestly tell you that he would be No super star on the Club Hockey level. Believe me when I tell you, he would be just an average player. The competition on the Club level is unbelieveable.
agree with what you are saying. D 1 and D3 are very strong. I agree club is awesome hockey too and getting better each season. I also think the junior programs especially the local programs except Apple Core is extremely watered down.
If you’re going to play Juniors, you have to play in the Mid-west or up in the Boston area. Concerning Applecore, their program is not that strong! Has gone down hill the past 3-4 years.The USHL is that place to go. Players like Jackson, Molinaro, Rui, Ruthberg, Rui are just wasting their time playing Juniors in this area. Rui tried to go out to the mid west but he just was not good enough to play at that level. That should give you an idea what type of competition you have to deeal with once you leave High School hockey.
willows was the best player around here, flory is good but willows is a good step above him
And Willows is going no where! He also is a club player ......... may make a D3 school if he’s lucky!
Not having been to a USHL tryout camp or a USHL game, all I can go by is tryouts for a team like Mid Fairfield Midget Majors. I think the top Mid F team is full of prep kids who expect to play DIII and in some cases DI. From what I have seen at a Mid Fairfield tryout, both Willows and Flory could contribute on a top Mid Fairfield team. So, with a season of juniors or PG, I think they both could play DIII, at least, if they so chose. DI a bigger leap. Andy Isles was one of the goalies on the Mid Fairfield Midget Majors last season when he boarded at Salisbury. I heard the Cornell coach (Ithaca his home town as Suffern fans know all too well) wants him as long as he skips prep (and Mid F this coming season) to play in the USHL for a season before entering college.
Harms’ brother was 6’3 210 when he was a high school senior, Gus is growing and has a better hockey IQ than any defenseman out there. With the size he will probably inherit, he will be a good player, plus he is repeating his sophomore year.
Dzenis is the fastest kid in section 1 and throws up weights that are comparable to the top players on Northwood. Harms will probably do a year on JV or maybe taxi squad, but Dzenis has a very good shot at making the Junior team for Northwood (top team)
I wouldn’t be surprised if Flory made the team in 2 years, Lambdin is done with hockey, Mamone is going to be playing club for a pretty bad d-3 club team (ricky deere is on the team) and his brother plays at the same level. Hernandez will try, if it works, if it doesnt then it doesn’t. And I do know that 2 pelham grads are very succesful in lower level d-1 club at Towson (emmet and Furlong)
He’s already made a D3 school and has been invited to several Mid-west tryouts. A little jealous, maybe?
For those interested in following Rui, he is at the Lincoln Stars USHL tryout in Omaha. He is cited by one blogger as having a good showing for Team Blue in the scrimmage.
http://lincolnstarsblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/lincoln-stars-tryouts-day-2.html
what D3 schooll did Willows get into?
anyone know where this years mamk seniors are going next year?
Hagan- we know st. johns
Fine-
Zweig-
L glaser(goalie)
C glaser (player)
Jackson-
Fine- Penn St
Zweig- Rutgers
L Glaser- Miami of Ohio
C Glaser- Delaware
Jackson- not attending school
Does anyone know where the Sufeern seniors will be going to school next season and if they will be playing?
Hiller
Hill
Mccarron
Gabriel
According to the Suffern website (http://www.ballcharts.com/suffernhockey):
Matt Murphy #11 will attend SUNY Albany and will tryout for the club team in the fall.
Carmen Gatta #14 will attend Boston College in the fall.
John Hill #15 will attend Providence College in the fall.
Joe Modica #19 will attend SUNY Canton and will tryout for the club team in the fall.
Zac Hiller #21 will attend the University of Michigan and tryout for the club team in the fall.
Greg McCarron #4 will attend Penn State University and will tryout for the club team in the fall.
Chris Byrnes #27 will attend Rockland Community College in the fall.
Paul Gabriel #1 will attend the Institute of Audio Research in the fall.
Brendan Rice #31 will attend Boston College in the fall.
Two Years ago, you had a few of the TOP High School players deciding to go the Junior route.
After a year in Juniors, I know NAtoli is going to Becker College, Rui looks like he’s playing Juniors out West and Ruthberg I hear is going to Rutgers.
Does anyone know where Joe Reagan from Stepinac ended up? IS he going to college or is he playing Juniors again next year!
Also,
Heard a few Rumors that Miano from Stepinac is going to Prep school and Stepinac Now has a new Hockey Coach. CAn anyone confirm?
It’s good to see that alot of top players will be attending alot of great colleges even if it’s only to play club or not even to play at all.
A high school sports career should be something fondly remembered and a great life’s experience, but after all is said and done let’s hope it’s only one of many good things to happen in these kids lives.
Flory will not walk on at RPI. Anyone who thinks that he will make the team in three years does not understand how it works. You have to stop watching Rudy. They redshirt scholarship players in D1. He is very talented, but not that talented. He would not be able to play in the SUNYAC or ECAC West. M-Ville is a good team, right in our own backyard, go watch them and you will see that D3 is good. If our local talent is that good, why aren’t they being recruited by M-Ville.
fan,
thank you for making a true point that everyone refuses to realize.
as anyone knows if they’ve ever seen manhattanville play at playland…no section 1 players will ever come close to playing for them, minus foster from suffern back in the day..
except for Mamo’s Capalbo who currently plays for Hobart (in M’Ville’s league) and the Daniels twins from Suffern who are scheduled to play DI this year at N’eastern and have both been drafted in the NHL. I am sure there are others I have missed. But, to the points made above, the ones who actually end up playing NCAA DI or DIII are few and far between.
Also Natoli at Becker. But, none of the ones I mentioned went straight from Section One to NCAA.
Douglas went straight from PWBV (and Mariners) to Framingham State. But, Framingham would have its hands full against a lot of the top DI club teams.
Framingham would have trouble with D@ club Teams!
Greg Ciciola (Pac) plays for Hobart as well.
well done by Capalbo, yes, I forgot him
did Ciciola actually play for Pac? I thought he was just junior/travel…
Framingham…would have trouble against Mariners Midget Major lol
Becker…joke of a d3…saw them play m’ville…no contest…lots of club teams could beat them
Daniels twins…nice success stories…joining a booming D1 program and will make them contend (along with others joining NU)
Yes, Ciciola played for Pac. He was the League 1 MVP & All-State Honorable Mention in 04-05 (his senior year).
http://www.section1hockey.com/200405Awards.html
To LoHud Hockey,
Are you saying that Ciciola, who is now (I guess) 23-24 years old. Just finished his Freshman year at Hobart.
Unbelieveable! If this doesn’t tell you how diificult it is to play Hockey after High School, Nothing will. Here’s one of the TOP players in the area and after all these years of playing Hockey finally makes good.
Now even though he never made it to a D1 school, he did make a D3 school, which is also considered a great Academic School. Congrat’s to him.
I guess congrat’s to Capalbo also!
Local NHL Fundraiser
June 19th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
July 1st there is a great charity hockey game with NHL players at the Darien Rink. If you want to see good hockey come to the game. St Louis-Shannon-Sifers-Jessiman-Higgins and many others scheduled to attend.
Are there any updates on what Willows options are for next season?
I don’t know how accurate this is but the rumor is he’s try out for 2 junior teams but was unsuccesful.